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Old 12-09-2016, 11:05 AM   #11
whswhs
 
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Default Re: A species without shared intentionality

It occurs to me that the closest fit in GURPS mechanics may well be Bestial. Nothing in Bestial precludes high IQ, but a Bestial being with IQ 16 will not be part of a society.
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Old 12-09-2016, 11:06 AM   #12
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Default Re: A species without shared intentionality

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Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
I have heard somewhere though that wolves don't hunt in packs the way men do, consciously using what may be called "tactics". Rather they all chase the same prey in the same direction and when they catch up to it all try to get a bite of it. I don't know if that is true.
There are wild dogs that hunt by spreading out in a line so wide that the prey can't zig and zag without running into the outrunners.

There was also a case of tigers, raised in captivity and released back to the wild, one of whom chased a prey animal into an ambush set by the other. Before that, tigers were not known to hunt cooperatively. What has science done!?!
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Old 12-09-2016, 11:42 AM   #13
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Default Re: A species without shared intentionality

Can we approach the question from the other direction? Assuming no existing trait fits, exactly what game mechanics should change to give the feel of No Shared Intentionality?
  • Can't make complementary skill rolls for others
  • Can't receive bonuses from complementary skill rolls. (Even if a "they" of some other species wants to work with you, you're not working with them.)
  • Taboo Trait (Tactics)
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Old 12-09-2016, 12:06 PM   #14
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Default Re: A species without shared intentionality

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
It occurs to me that the closest fit in GURPS mechanics may well be Bestial. Nothing in Bestial precludes high IQ, but a Bestial being with IQ 16 will not be part of a society.
It's definitely part of it. Here's a description of chimp cooperation (or lack of it):

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In general, it is almost unimaginable that two chimpanzees might spontaneously do something as simple as carry something together or help each other make a tool, that is, do something with a commitment to do it together and to help each other with their role if needed. Indeed, in a recent study, Hare and Tomasello (2004) found that in a single food-finding task structured as either competition or cooperation, chimpanzees performed much more skillfully in the competitive version. Nor does ape communication seem to be collaborative in the same way as human communication. Most basically, there is very little communication about third entities (topics), and there are no signals serving a declarative or informative motive. Apes do not point, show, or even actively offer things to conspecifics.
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Old 12-09-2016, 12:15 PM   #15
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Default Re: A species without shared intentionality

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* we are the only species that can do that
** this may not be true of all dogs and all cats or even all chimps, so please don't point out the exceptions. An intriguing possibility is that cats are evolving shared intentionality, but there's a reason there are so many "trained dog" movies and so few "trained cat" movies
Now that I think about it, I have always used Feral to represent that (at least in highly intelligent entities with a handicapped ability to cooperate.)
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Old 12-09-2016, 03:31 PM   #16
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Default Re: A species without shared intentionality

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Now that I think about it, I have always used Feral to represent that (at least in highly intelligent entities with a handicapped ability to cooperate.)
Are you talking about Bestial? Because, yeah, that might be the best way to capture it.
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Old 12-09-2016, 04:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: A species without shared intentionality

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
There are wild dogs that hunt by spreading out in a line so wide that the prey can't zig and zag without running into the outrunners.

There was also a case of tigers, raised in captivity and released back to the wild, one of whom chased a prey animal into an ambush set by the other. Before that, tigers were not known to hunt cooperatively. What has science done!?!
Quite a few animals, when raised as naturally as possible in captivity, will exhibit very unusual behaviors and personalities.
Sloths sleep only 9 1/2 hours in the wild, but we know how much longer they do in nice safe zoos.
Male orangs are very antisocial and stand offish in the wild, but are often jovial pranksters in captivity.
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Old 12-09-2016, 04:25 PM   #18
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Default Re: A species without shared intentionality

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Are you talking about Bestial? Because, yeah, that might be the best way to capture it.
On the one hand, it feels like a very scientifically minded approach to bestial. On the other hand, I do feel like if you are enforcing it it might be worth more points.
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Old 12-09-2016, 11:25 PM   #19
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Default Re: A species without shared intentionality

Interestingly, if they have no concept of "we do this", they probably have no concept of "they do this". There's probably a penalty to all manner of skills, and a number of taboo skills.
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Old 12-10-2016, 12:28 AM   #20
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: A species without shared intentionality

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Are you talking about Bestial? Because, yeah, that might be the best way to capture it.
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. It's not entirely valid since actual animals are perfectly capable of pack mentality but the number of points that my dragon gets for it feels right.
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