Takedown Rifles (1990s)

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Icelander

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These and smaller magnifications might be what I need for T/C Contender barrels, especially if I want to be able to use the same scope to shoot with and without buttstock.

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Pistol scopes with long eye relief were available in the period. My father had one on a S&W 629. I can't tell you what kind. His gun collection was liquidated after he passed away.

It wasn't heavy or bulky compared to the gun itself. So I myself wouldn't worry about exact numbers. The generic numbers in HT are almost certainly close enough.

[Polydamas]

I like the idea of drained or unobtainable batteries, failing electronics, or condensation inside optics as last-minute problems which characters have to solve.

[Þorkell]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

It wasn't heavy or bulky compared to the gun itself. So I myself wouldn't worry about exact numbers. The generic numbers in HT are almost certainly close enough.

Icelander takes great pains and massive effort to avoid generic numbers.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Þorkell

Icelander takes great pains and massive effort to avoid generic numbers.

I had noticed that before but I thought I'd try.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

I like the idea of drained or unobtainable batteries, failing electronics, or condensation inside optics as last-minute problems which characters have to solve.

As do I.

Every character I've personally played who was a trained sharpshooter also loaded his own ammunition and was capable of customizing his own rifles, with Armoury (Smallarms) 12+. The last one was a US Army Special Forces Weapon Sergeant (18B) and a school-trained sniper with Armoury 18 (not as crazy as it sounds, 'only' a 4 point investment plus a bonus for a paranormal supersoldier treatment that, among other things, boosted existing Talents sky high).

I recognize that in reality, plenty of tactical shooters draw their weapons and commercial match ammunition from armouries before missions and return them afterwards, trusting unit armourers to handle anything more than mounting accessories to standard rails. So, there are plenty of military snipers and police marksmen without the Armoury skill, relying on IQ-based Guns to assemble field stripped weapons and troubleshoot ancient optics.

[Icelander]

Thompson/Center has sold the T/C Contender since 1967. Seeing as this is meant to change barrels easily, it is a natural fit as a takedown weapon and with the factory buttstock, it makes a nice takedown rifle.

The original frame (well, with slight modifications to make opening it easier, but not enough to change model names) can only handle certain bolt thrust and frames can stretch at higher pressures. In practice, this means that .308 Winchester or more powerful rounds cannot be chambered in the original T/C Contenders.

The most popular centerfire rounds for them are .223 Remington and .30-30 Winchester, as well as various cartridges derived from those two. The .35 Remington was a practical factory option for slightly larger animals and a factory barrel was available in .45-70 (possible because of the relatively low pressure of the round, but care must be taken not to use modern loadings).

Probably the best long-range round sold as a factory option, with commercial match cartridges available in the 1990s (the Federal Premium (P730A) 120 grain Nosler FP at 2,400 fps), is the 7x30 Waters. Using spitzer hunting bullet handloads, it perform even better at long range or against live targets.

Now, assuming that I want to make use of T/C Contenders as takedown rifles, stashing a few additional barrels is fairly trivial. So, I should maybe have more than one caliber.

I'm not certain whether I want to pack both the .223 Remington factory barrel and the custom barrel that will fire heavy 5.56x45mm bullets accurately, as they have similar roles. It just feels odd to leave all the common rounds out, but at the same time, really don't want to have a .223 rifle from which you can't fire captured or stolen ammo from militaries or paramilitaries.

Here are some thoughts I've had:

.22 LR: Custom ('home-made') integrally suppressed 14" barrel, scoped with a variable rimfire scope (possibly AO or with another form of adjustable parallax) with a maximum magnification 6x or better, to be used as a covert single-shot carbine.

.45 ACP: Factory 10" barrel (LH 1:16 twist) cut down to make a custom 14" integrally suppressed barrel, scoped with a compact hunting scope, probably of no more than 4x maximum magnification, very likely a pistol EER scope.

.223 Remington: Factory Super 14 barrel (14", 1:12 twist), with optics for precision shooting within 300 yards.

5.56x45mm: SSK Industries custom match 14" long .223 Wylde barrel in 1:7 twist rate; the best approximation of modern tactical optics meant for all-weather use, out to 600 yards, available in the early 1990s. Should have a bipod or some other form of method of easily stabilizing it attached.

7x30 Waters: Factory Super 14 barrel (14", 1:9 twist); high-quality hunting optics that can take advantage of the range of good spitzer bullet loads (even in the 1990s, the top competitors could put three 7x30 Waters rounds within an inch at 500 yards from a T/C Contender) and a mounted bipod or another way to stabilize it.

.45-70: Factory Super 14 barrel (14", 1:20 twist), mounting a sturdy, low-power hunting scope.

Am I missing something?

Notes?

Suggestions for specific optics commercially available in 1987-1995, weighed toward the earlier years?

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I'm not certain whether I want to pack both the .223 Remington factory barrel and the custom barrel that will fire heavy 5.56x45mm bullets accurately, as they have similar roles. It just feels odd to leave all the common rounds out, but at the same time, really don't want to have a .223 rifle from which you can't fire captured or stolen ammo from militaries or paramilitaries.

Firstly, I don't think using captured ammo is really a priority for a single-shot precision fire weapon. Secondly, the faster twist of the 'heavy bullet' barrel will work fine for the older ball rounds - they just won't yaw as fast on impact. They might be a little less accurate, but you're talking about mass-produced general issue ammo anyway (and unless you spend time re-sighting in the weapon it'll probably be off the point-of-aim anyway).

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Rupert

Firstly, I don't think using captured ammo is really a priority for a single-shot precision fire weapon.

You'd be surprised how often leaving forensic evidence that suggests weapons stolen from local militaries or paramilitaries would be useful.

Originally Posted by Rupert

Secondly, the faster twist of the 'heavy bullet' barrel will work fine for the older ball rounds - they just won't yaw as fast on impact. They might be a little less accurate, but you're talking about mass-produced general issue ammo anyway (and unless you spend time re-sighting in the weapon it'll probably be off the point-of-aim anyway).

Yeah, the .223 Wylde barrel in 1:7 twist will fire heavy bullets very accurately and every type of common military or hunting ammo with at least equal precision as a high-quality commercial AR-15. It's clearly superior, in every way except being custom made by a fairly small company.

However, as the barrels are legally not firearms, they could have been ordered as a large commercial shipment and marketed in gun mags through some perfectly legitimate mail-order/early-adopter Internet supplier, with a few dozen barrels diverted to unidentified buyers.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Rupert

The G3 series could be taken apart by pushing out a few pins, like the M16 family. You'd then have the stock and recoil spring, say 50cm long roughly, the trigger group, and the barrel and receiver group about the same length as an M16's upper group (the G3 had a longer receiver but a shorter barrel).

Also, the G3 had a removable scope mounting that was designed so that it wouldn't change its zero if removed and replaced. I remember reading a review of the weapon and mount where the reviewer tested this and found the point of aim moved no more than 1" at 100 yards (about 1MOA), which is more than good enough for a battle rifle.

The biggest drawback of a G3 as a take-down weapon is probably that it's made from a lot of heavy gauge steel stampings and is thus quite heavy (HT says 11.4/1.7 pounds, and you'd added another 1.5 lbs or so for scope and mount).

Assuming that some G3 rifles are acquired from African and Latin American countries where US or Soviet weapons are replacing them and control of reserve armouries is loose, and then refurbished to G3A4 standards, what scope would one buy for them in 1987?

I assume you could drop in a different scope than the Hensoldt Fero Z24 4×24*in the mount?

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Assuming that some G3 rifles are acquired from African and Latin American countries where US or Soviet weapons are replacing them and control of reserve armouries is loose, and then refurbished to G3A4 standards, what scope would one buy for them in 1987?

I assume you could drop in a different scope than the Hensoldt Fero Z24 4×24*in the mount?

My recollection is that the mount took standard 1" scopes. If not, the version sold to the US market (before the 'assault rifle' import ban) certainly did.