Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip > The Fantasy Trip: House Rules

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-06-2019, 06:00 AM   #1
RobW
 
RobW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Roll to miss variants

There was a brief discussion about "roll to miss" being broken. It's easier to seriously damage hard-to-hit enemies by rolling to miss rather than to hit them. RAW are clear this is not the intention, but it is nevertheless the effect.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=163430

A few variants to get around the problem.

1. Disallow rolling to miss enemies. That's how it was handled in the original version of Melee (at least the 5th edition).

But rolling to miss enemies can be cinematic, fun, and memorable, so I don't like this approach.
RobW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 06:01 AM   #2
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Roll to miss variants

My vote is to toss out all of roll to miss and replace it with just this:

A figure may voluntarily (openly or secretly) reduce its adjDX by any amount for the purposes of making any roll. For example a "roll to miss" is simply a "roll to hit" at adjDX zero. Therefore a roll of three on three dice is triple damage, four is double damage, five is a hit, 18 is a break weapon, 17 is a drop weapon, and any other roll is a miss. Note that you are slightly more likely to hit friends who are dodging.
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 06:04 AM   #3
RobW
 
RobW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Re: Roll to miss variants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
No, you're not missing anything. The rule is trying to be simple but still allow all the possible outcomes, without rolling more dice, but the shifting of double and triple damage results down has a huge effect on the odds of very damaging hits, which is a bug.

One simple bug fix, for example, could be to have 3 and 4 mean triple and double damage _hits_ as usual on a roll to miss, to avoid increasing their chances.
Would one say 14+ on roll to miss is a failure, and the attack hits friends but not enemies (although without damage multiplier)?
RobW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 06:08 AM   #4
RobW
 
RobW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Re: Roll to miss variants

How about this "roll to miss" variant

For each intervening figure along the flight path, add 1 die to the to-hit roll.

That is, you don't roll to miss intervening figures, but your shot to hit your final target is getting harder and harder with more people/obstacles in the way.

Then one could say, on a critical failure, you hit a random friend along the path. If there are no friends on the path, just enemies, then the attack has failed and you break/drop your weapon as usual for the critical failure.
RobW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 06:11 AM   #5
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Roll to miss variants

I.e. apply ITL 114: "In a situation where it matters (i.e., the “body” was still alive), the archer must make a second roll – rolling his adjDX to try to miss – if and only if he misses his original target."
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 10:36 AM   #6
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Roll to miss variants

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobW View Post
Would one say 14+ on roll to miss is a failure, and the attack hits friends but not enemies (although without damage multiplier)?
I think that is more or less the intent of the rules.

Some time when I have more time to focus on this, I'll re-look at it and suggest something. I'm used to using a roll-to-miss system that is a house rule of the GURPS system, and so I'm slightly stunned that it looks like (?) the TFT system doesn't (?) have a penalty for each intervening figure?

(* Isn't there a rule, at least in original TFT, that there is a -4 for every intervening figure, or is that just in GURPS?)

Basically, it seems to me it should not ever be more dangerous to roll to miss than to try to intentionally hit someone, and that each intervening figure should make hitting each target less likely, regardless of whether any of the figures are friends or foes.
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2019, 07:53 PM   #7
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Roll to miss variants

The problem is roll to hit. Allowing full DX against each member of a swarm ensures that one will be hit. These are can't miss arrows, unless they drop or break.

Instead for each shot declare one target to be attacked at full DX and everything before or after that target (friend or foe) is attacked at adjDX zero.
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2019, 04:07 AM   #8
RobW
 
RobW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Re: Roll to miss variants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
...I'm slightly stunned that it looks like (?) the TFT system doesn't (?) have a penalty for each intervening figure?

(* Isn't there a rule, at least in original TFT, that there is a -4 for every intervening figure, or is that just in GURPS?)
No such rule, at least as far back as 1981 Melee 5th edition. There you roll to miss allies (14+ = failure), and cannot rule to miss enemies.
RobW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2019, 07:10 AM   #9
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Roll to miss variants

I think I've covered all the abuses here with a massive rules simplification.

https://www.hcobb.com/tft/house_rule...#thrownweapons
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2019, 09:45 AM   #10
RobW
 
RobW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Re: Roll to miss variants

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
I think I've covered all the abuses here with a massive rules simplification.

https://www.hcobb.com/tft/house_rule...#thrownweapons
This does avoid any perverse incentives about roll-to-miss, but it makes it easy to shoot arrows through a crowd of people to hit a target.
RobW is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.