One possible take on martial arts and "parry"

[Nils_Lindeberg]

Active parry is very difficult to implement without slowing down the game and change the feel of the game. Now and then having to roll an extra die or two to hit, is ok. And people actually wanting to use Defend and Dodge options would be a nice bonus.

Basic change to Defend and Dodge option:

Defend action - You can defend, your enemies get +1 die vs DX to hit you (normally 4vsDX), but you can still attack or cast a spell with -6 DX. Gets better with UC talents. Two highly talented warriors can both go defensively and despite having adjDX of 20+ still have a hard time hitting each other. And in a duel with many rolls, the best man will most likely win. But if they both go all out attacking, the fight will be over very quickly. And that will be the norm. This will also lead to most people going defensively at the beginning of a duel to see where they stand and then trying to find the best tactic.
Dodge works the same way if you can do a ranged attack of your own or a melee attack if you are currently in melee.

And here is the changes I use to Unarmed Combat. It is now viable for all weapons and builds off of the basic change to Defend and Dodge.

Talents:
All "UC" talents cost 1 less. These are now MARTIAL ARTS in a wider sense, since many fighters will take it.

IQ 10 (1p)MA I gives you only -5 DX when you defend or dodge. You can attack at the same time with the DX penalty.
You can defend barehanded against armed opponents and unarmed damage is +1.
If you are a wizard you get an extra +1 dmg in HTH related things just like Fighters already have.
Pinning rules and HTH follows the normal UC rules. You can use UC talents armed and armored.

IQ 11 (1p)MA II gives you only -4 DX when you defend or dodge.
You can shield-rush w/o a shield. You can use the new version of the Fencing talent with unarmed attacks. (basically a critical hit talent for everyone)

IQ 12 (1p)MA III gives you only -3 DX when you defend or dodge.
You do another +1 dmg with unarmed attacks.

IQ 13 (1p)MA IV gives the choice to take -2 DX for +1 die or -6 DX for +2 dice when def. or dodge.
When you throw people they resist with 4 or 5 dice vs DX depending on ST (see vanilla UCIII).
Eyes in the back. The rear is a side hex, side hexes are front hexes.
You can divide the extra dice up between Dodge and Defend.
So with a -6 to DX you can Defend for 1 extra dice and Dodge for 1 extra dice.

IQ 14 (2p)MA V Gives +1 dice for an enemy and -0 DX for you when def. or dodg., +2 dice for DX -4 and +3 dice for DX -10.
Unarmed nerve attack (Disarm or knockdown) when you do at least enemy ST / 5 dmg (round up).

Summary: "Poor man's parry"
Implement a trade-off between to-hit and enemy to-hit. Make it available to everyone. Add it to UC talents and remove some of the limits on minimum adjDX and no armor rule. People need high adjDX to use it properly anyway. Make it possible to Defend and Dodge at the same time at high talent levels.

[zot]

Originally Posted by Nils_Lindeberg

[B]
. IQ 14 (2p)MA V Gives +1 dice for an enemy and -0 DX for you when def. or dodg., +2 dice for DX -4 and +3 dice for DX -10.
Unarmed nerve attack (Disarm or knockdown) when you do at least enemy ST / 5 dmg (round up).

Summary: "Poor man's parry"
Implement a trade-off between to-hit and enemy to-hit. Make it available to everyone. Add it to UC talents and remove some of the limits on minimum adjDX and no armor rule. People need high adjDX to use it properly anyway. Make it possible to Defend and Dodge at the same time at high talent levels.

I disagree with IQ 14 martial talents because of the 40-point attribute cap. I recommend lowering the IQ req and adding DX and ST reqs if you want to restrict the talent to higher than 32 points, as in my post above with a ST 11 req.

[Nils_Lindeberg]

Originally Posted by zot

I disagree with IQ 14 martial talents because of the 40-point attribute cap. I recommend lowering the IQ req and adding DX and ST reqs if you want to restrict the talent to higher than 32 points, as in my post above with a ST 11 req.

The IQ levels comes from my own house rules and are not adjusted for the new version. That can be easily adjusted once the other rules are set in stone.

What about the main thing? The Defend action with a possibility to attack back, but with a large penalty. And tie the UC system to that and lower the penalty?

And the second big change, allowing this with other weapons and not just unarmed? SO no longer a UC system but a Martial system in general.

[zot]

Originally Posted by Nils_Lindeberg

What about the main thing? The Defend action with a possibility to attack back, but with a large penalty. And tie the UC system to that and lower the penalty?

And the second big change, allowing this with other weapons and not just unarmed? SO no longer a UC system but a Martial system in general.

-6 DX to attack while defending is intriguing.

The UC talents (new and old) already make a UC fighter harder to hit while not defending (in the new one, so far, "Evade" already kicks in at UC II). Maybe having the -6 DX option while defending is already good enough for them.

[Nils_Lindeberg]

Originally Posted by zot

-6 DX to attack while defending is intriguing.

The UC talents (new and old) already make a UC fighter harder to hit while not defending (in the new one, so far, "Evade" already kicks in at UC II). Maybe having the -6 DX option while defending is already good enough for them.

I like that the new rules allow for attacks and a better defense at the same time. But I would like a bigger difference and one that is more of a statement. A -1 here and there is easily forgotten. A whole die or two extra, not so easy to miss.

And the other big thing is to not limit this to only unarmed attacks. We don't see Sword I, II, III, IV, and V. So why should unarmed attacks get such a special treatment? The only reason I can see is so that a monk character can work, but if they spend all their points on just fighting they will never learn everything else that is part of the classic monk class.

And I would like to point out that advanced fighting techniques are not for unarmed martial artist alone. Every weapon should have access to similar advantages. Preferably in one skill so you pay 1 to 3 point for a basic weapon, then maybe 2-5 extra for advanced fighting talents that applies for all melee weapons (like Missile Weapons already does) and then you can buy a couple of more basic weapons and be an expert with all.

You can never be an expert in more than one or at the most two if you have to buy many talents for just one weapon. And that seems a little bit limiting.

And personally, I prefer to have an arms race or rather a talent race that gives you DX or toHit bonus and penalties. Bonus to damage makes the game too deadly and armor is a set number and can be abused. The worst that can happen with DX is that you need to be lucky or that you always hit, not game breaking.

So instead of being able to trade IQ or DX for extra damage, let them trade it to lower armor (armor piercing or aimed attacks) and lowering the opponents chance of hitting.

And all you have to do to make monks viable is give them advantages in throwing/tripping people, HTH and be good enough to hit like a weapon if they have cesti or otherwise a little weaker. If they want to hit harder than that, get ST, invest in enchanted gloves, get a spell or just hit twice. Then a few talents for the special powers like nerve strike that can only be done unarmed can go a long way to make them on par with normal fighters. And if you want them unarmored, see to it that a high adjDX pays off with some of the special abilities they can buy.

And every fighter should be able to get eyes-behind. It is not a unique unarmed thing. Defending your self well is not an unarmed thing either, it is more a tank thing to be used with a shield and heavy armor.

So keep most of the UC abilities open to everyone, divide the abilities into separate talents and allow attack and defend at the same time some form.