Technology using Magic

[DangerousThing]

Hi,

In my setting, the DJverse (Dangerous Journeys Universe), a space opera setting, I have magic as part of the background. Magic is the force behind psionic abilities, chi abilities, and even some technology.

I don't mean that this is anything like a Technomancer setting (also cool, mind you), but that many of the superscience technologies use the same forces as magic. They are built just like any other technology and don't require mages to build them; the builders and theorists would claim that it *isn't* magic.

However, as I said, most superscience uses magic. This does mean that when an ftl engine uses a sudden burst of power, most mages onboard get head aches. Sudden swerving with the reactionless drives causes the same thing.

Knowing of this effect, it is possible to build technological shields against magic.

Theoretically it should be possible to use magic to generate electrical power, but nobody has figured out any effecient way to do this that isn't better than a battery or fuel cell. (Creating a lot of power would require a mage with at least a 4 - out of 6 - in the realm of energy.)

However, there are no normal enchanted objects in the setting. Enchanted objects are either created with Enchantment Through Deeds (Thaumatology p. 112) or by a powerful mage sacrificing a great deal of his power or even his life to create something). Magic items tend to be more powerful with age also. Magic items are rare and are not available in traditional stores. It's difficult to even commission the creation of a magical item because what's it worth for a master mage to lose much of his magic (anywhere from 10 CP to 100+ CP taken from magical advantages and basic characteristics)?

Does anybody see any "gotcha's" in this?

[ericthered]

Functionally, whats the difference between a piece of technology and a magic item? power requirements? mode of use?

And what is magic mostly used for?

[MatthewVilter]

If superscience is magic and scientists understand it ("It's not magic!") then technowledge should probably be able to do all or a lot of the things mages do.

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Functionally, whats the difference between a piece of technology and a magic item? power requirements? mode of use?

And what is magic mostly used for?

Generally technology runs off of electricity and can be built on assembly lines by relatively low-skilled people. Hyperdrives, reactionless drives, and even the more fancy power plants and weapons. However, technology can tap into the forces that power magic.

There are only two magic items in the game, both staves. One of them changes size, and the other is indestructible (it can parry a force sword). One is of unknown age, and the other dates back to ancient China, making it at least 7,000 years old by the time of the game. Neither magic item requires any known power for use.

The setting is 500 years after the Shattering. This was a magical effect that killed 90% of the people, almost all of the mages, and destroyed all inscribed information (including written records, computer records, and even computers when they were high density enough to be considered information). This happened over an area of at least hundreds of parsecs radius and was done as an act of spite by Cthulhu or one of his ilk when they were prevented from coming back to this world (a previous game).

As for what magic is used for, that is a good question. It depends on the mage and what he's studied. I'm using Syntactic/Realm magic from Thaumatology. Most things that are possible to GURPS magic are possible, except for telepathy. There is a Realm of Spirit (which includes embodied spirits such as one in a person as well as disembodied spirits) but the best you can get from this is to sense emotions. Magic is best used for subtle effects, but if you have a high enough power and skill in a Realm you can do some in-your-face type effects as well though it will cost you. I'm also using the concept of lessor and greater effects from RPM.

Basically magic was used for defense from raiders (space pirates) and for healing until the TL advanced sufficiently that they were no longer needed. They are still used by the Confederation Rangers in combat positions, but mostly for their added sensory capabilities.

They are part of a good bodyguard team.

And yes, they make good assassins because they don't need a gun to kill somebody.

Mages can still sense certain things better than machines can for the moment and are part of the Confederation Patrol Navy and Survey teams. There is also some subtle shielding and such that they can do.

Before the Shattering mages (called Alchemists) did more complex things such as creating the Imperial IDs which were magically linked to a given person and as such were highly difficult to forge, and also the Imperial ship transponders used similar magic to guarantee that the transponder belonged to the ship.

However, the Shattering broke the continuity of training. In the entire Confederation there is only one mage left from before and she can't train people in magic because her magic was cursed. Though she has written a few basic magical texts.

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by MatthewVilter

If superscience is magic and scientists understand it ("It's not magic!") then technowledge should probably be able to do all or a lot of the things mages do.

Except that currently at TL 9/10 one can only tap into magic technologically by brute force. However I believe that in my setting at TL 12 tech will be pretty much indistinguishable from magic. Thereby proving the statement "A sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

[MatthewVilter]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

Except that currently at TL 9/10 one can only tap into magic technologically by brute force. However I believe that in my setting at TL 12 tech will be pretty much indistinguishable from magic. Thereby proving the statement "A sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Sounds fair.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

Theoretically it should be possible to use magic to generate electrical power, but nobody has figured out any effecient way to do this that isn't better than a battery or fuel cell. (Creating a lot of power would require a mage with at least a 4 - out of 6 - in the realm of energy.)

Create some Essential Fire. Now, hit it with mundane water. You have steam to power turbines!

[trechriron]

1) I love this idea! I have a very similar setting in the works, not quite as space opera (more dystopia, inside a protected "sphere" of space that houses maybe 20 - 100 solar systems...). I absolutely think the best way to meld "realistic" future technology with super-science is to use magic to break the laws of physics as we know them. Something about it makes it more plausible for me. I also insist on having a supernatural element to every game I run, so it's a requirement for any setting I cook up anyways. :-)

2) Gary Gygax wrote a game called Mythus: Dangerous Journeys now owned by WOTC/Hasbro essentially (originally owned by TSR after a legal settlement...). You may want to dig a little deeper into the name you've chosen. It could cause confusion, and since it's for GURPS you aren't doing anything commercial with it I imagine, so I doubt there would be legal issues, but it never hurts to dig in a bit. :-)

Some questions to mull over (also, I'm curious!):

Are there magical dead zones in the setting? What happens when the technology hits a dead zone?

Are you using varying mana levels? Is the technology affected?

After The Shattering, can this technology be maintained? I imagine since only one mage is left, creating new technology is going to be difficult/impossible?

What were the effects of the Shattering? Did it have any impact on the rest of the culture? Have any prejudices or superstitions risen from the event?

Alien species? Do they also have magical talent?

Supernatural creatures? Or creatures that can use latent magic or are somehow impacted by magic?

Now for the general setting questions:

What do the heroes in this setting do? Where does one find adventure?

What are the challenges, enemies or struggles?

Who are potential allies, contacts, friends?

How do you WANT this type of technology to impact society/culture and more importantly WHAT the characters can/can't do?

The hallmarks of a good RPG setting are not necessarily incredible detail or realism, but playability and fun. You want the players to hear your elevator pitch about the game and get literally turned on. Well, IMHO and all that. :-)

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by trechriron

1) I love this idea! I have a very similar setting in the works, not quite as space opera (more dystopia, inside a protected "sphere" of space that houses maybe 20 - 100 solar systems...). I absolutely think the best way to meld "realistic" future technology with super-science is to use magic to break the laws of physics as we know them. Something about it makes it more plausible for me. I also insist on having a supernatural element to every game I run, so it's a requirement for any setting I cook up anyways. :-)

Thank you. I also have a magical component to every game I run, usually inspired by HP Lovecraft. :)

Some questions to mull over (also, I'm curious!):

Are there magical dead zones in the setting? What happens when the technology hits a dead zone?

None found so far. :)

Are you using varying mana levels? Is the technology affected?

Varying mana levels probably would have only a small effect on the tech, but mana levels usually vary according to planetary scale.

After The Shattering, can this technology be maintained? I imagine since only one mage is left, creating new technology is going to be difficult/impossible?

This tech is created by non-mages and maintained by non-mages.

New mages have been born, it's just that they don't have the training that was fairly common during the Phoenix Empire time (the previous couple thousand years).

What were the effects of the Shattering? Did it have any impact on the rest of the culture? Have any prejudices or superstitions risen from the event?

The Phoenix Confederation (the place that the players are in, a very small polity with only about 12 systems and a few client systems) has a hatred of raiders. They are in a cold war that could heat up at any time with another polity because they have evidence that they are allowing raiders to base in their systems.

Because the population of the Confederation are humans with a symbiont that gives them Unaging (along with a few other benefits - this is biological, not magical) they recovered from the Shattering much faster than neighboring systems. They used a knowledge of genetics and governmental control over breeding to regrow their population extremely quickly and with the best possible genetic variance. They *like* large families even though the need for the growth to support tech is gone.

Alien species? Do they also have magical talent?

Some, but there aren't many aliens around that are known. The Lirrians were more advanced than humans technically and magically, but they are far away now and only one delegation was seen over 100 years ago.

As for aliens that aren't known, the Mi-Go are out to subdue humanity and they want to destroy the Confederation (and they are supporting the Kingdom of the Righteous in order to do this).

Supernatural creatures? Or creatures that can use latent magic or are somehow impacted by magic?

The forces unleashed by the Shattering actually created many supernatural races. One character is playing one.

Now for the general setting questions:

What do the heroes in this setting do? Where does one find adventure?

Pretty much whatever they want to, if they aren't working for the Office of Special Circumstances (also called the Department of Dirty Tricks). It was suggested when possible that they try their hand at trade pioneering. They will have some espionage jobs, and probably try their hand at trading.

What are the challenges, enemies or struggles?

That would be telling. But I'll tell...

Well, there is the cold war and problems that could bring. Depending on the characters this could turn into the focus of the game. The Kindom is theoretically a benign theocracy, but in reality the leaders are lying to the people big time. The leaders themselves are very nasty characters, having been transformed by a spell given to them by the Mi-Go into monsters that can turn into human form.

One of the characters is supposed to be looking for a missing goddess.

There is the search for an Imperial Naval Ship Reserve (mothballed large naval ships that probably weren't effected by the Shattering because they weren't near a planet when it happened. This could turn the war into the Confederation's favor.

On a more personal level there in an individual enemy who will show up in the first adventure.

I've planned a few more named enemies, though it may take the characters a while to figure out who he is.

And of course there are shoggoths, soulless creatures of messy destruction.

Who are potential allies, contacts, friends?

The "captain" of their ship, The Swamp Gas. Jack is a being of pure thought who is highly advanced in magic. He literally makes the ship run. He doesn't tell them where to go or what to do, but will reign them in if they want to try something stupid like piracy.

A few elders that they know: Pappy Smith, Aunty Twa, Sister Moon.

If they handle the first adventure well, they may have some contacts in Yon-Nihon.

The Office of Special Circumstances is always a good ally or patron to have.

How do you WANT this type of technology to impact society/culture and more importantly WHAT the characters can/can't do?

The tech is basically there to make the stories run. I also like the idea of inconveniencing mages during flight if they are unprepared. Like you I don't like superscience without some explanation, so I"m using this one.

Other than this, it's just another tech, until they fly into a no-mana zone or something.

The hallmarks of a good RPG setting are not necessarily incredible detail or realism, but playability and fun. You want the players to hear your elevator pitch about the game and get literally turned on. Well, IMHO and all that. :-)

I think that realism has to be thought of in the context of the game. Perhaps a better word would be consistency or plausibility. My players seem to be very interested from the descriptions I've given. My wife is making me clean the house before I can start the game, which is the main delay so far.

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Create some Essential Fire. Now, hit it with mundane water. You have steam to power turbines!

I'm not using the standard GURPS magic. I'm using realm magic from Thaumatology. And with a lot of magical knowledge lost in the Shattering, there is no known spell to create essential fire if there ever was one.