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05-05-2019, 12:53 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Nov 2017
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New Xp System: Not a Fan
So I'm really not a fan of the new Xp system. 12,800xp to reach 40 stat points, which at 100 xp per session is 128 sessions regardless of length of activities in them.
Then 128 sessions for stat 41, 256 for stat 42, etc. If you are using older material (like Tolenkar's Lair) PCs can NEVER realisitally reach the level of the big NPCs. I know the old system could be slow as well, but still, it was more governed by player activity in the games (kill and be successful in Saves and such and you got more xp). It had its issues, but still. Now, buying talents/spells outside of increasing IQ is great, and I love that. Also love increasing the Mana in your staff with Xp. I don't know the point of this post, just griping I guess. Think I'm going to stick with the old system, possibly also increase the xp awards (10 per hour of play, 20 for 3d saves, 30 for 4d, etc), Dx+IQ for killing blows. Maybe even xp for treasure gained (since I do like xp for gp in old school games). |
05-05-2019, 01:02 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
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Re: New Xp System: Not a Fan
The new Tolenkar is a 46 attribute character with Mana 40 and 43 IQ points cost of talents and spells. This is merely 512300 XPs for attributes, 8000 XPs for Mana and at least 11500 XP for talents and spells. For a grand total of 531500 XP. An active adventurer can easily make 500 XPs a year so he's only a thousand years old.
The real problem is the Necropus at more than two hundred thousand years old.
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05-05-2019, 01:19 PM | #3 | |
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Re: New Xp System: Not a Fan
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That's some Forgotten Realms level nonsense right there! Thanks for doing the math! Out of curiosity, where did you get the 500xp per year? Is that in ITL or something and I've missed it or just ballpark figure? |
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05-05-2019, 01:28 PM | #4 |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: New Xp System: Not a Fan
New ITL says GMs can give out experience however they like, and its guidelines are about sessions rather than game-time years, so it's his estimate.
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05-05-2019, 02:46 PM | #5 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Re: New Xp System: Not a Fan
I think the new XP rules are brilliant. When evaluating them, you have to remember what it was like when every PC had 50+ stat points; it was pretty game breaking and could get frankly boring. The present version lets you reach lofty heights in many respects, but always with a trade off that leaves you weak in some other way. Or you can be balanced and multi-faceted, yet not god like at any one thing.
Anyway, there is a super easy solution: give a lot more XP per session. That part of the rules is left quite vague and open to GM fiat. There is nothing to stop you giving 100 xp per half hour of play. Or 1000 if you want. It is your table. The only side to this that irritates me are the humanoid NPCs who seem to be normal mortals but have abilities outside the reach of any plausible PC. I wouldn't say the same applies to monsters; who knows how octopi gain stats. |
05-06-2019, 01:19 AM | #7 | |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: New Xp System: Not a Fan
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There may be solutions, but I don't think they're simple, at least not without having quite a few issues, at least for my tastes. And I don't mean the effective limit around 40 points. I kind of like that myself. I mean things like: * lack of adaptations that make sense for races with non-human-like attribute totals * very quickly vanishing difference between lower-attribute races and others due to the very steep XP curve * no system for ordinary people learning ordinary talents in ordinary ways * 500 XP per talent was trying to aim to be something else to do with XP around 38 points, but it missed the mark AND leaves no other way to learn talents, and 500 XP is a huge amount for most of the population if they average 30 points and use the same rules * giving a weird huge incentive to take as high IQ as you can to get what is effectively a huge leap forward in character progression via talents & spells * weirdly making gargoyles and reptile men start at 32 points, even though standard NPC/summoned gargoyles are still 39 points, and reptile men are still huge but now have no NPC stats listed. Last edited by Skarg; 05-06-2019 at 01:27 AM. |
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05-06-2019, 12:10 PM | #8 | ||
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Re: New Xp System: Not a Fan
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05-07-2019, 01:49 AM | #9 | |
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
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Re: New Xp System: Not a Fan
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Regarding attribute bloat, I've played this game for 40 years and it WAS a problem. Just because one person never saw it doesn't mean it wasn't an issue, and Lars actually does a pretty good job of encapsulating the *real* issue -- it was boring. I know that Joe will take me to task for this, but I much prefer the new system in terms of how XP may be spent and new skills and spells learned compared to the old way of doing things -- it's smoother, more intuitive and requires less book-keeping -- all positives in my opinion. Plus, as others have said before, de-coupling the learning process from the rigid IQ limits (and instead using IQ to limit the complexity of the learnable tasks instead of the number of them) is just so much more useful and "accurate" in game terms than the old system was. Plus we get rid of all that nonsense about "forgetting" talents and spells. In short, taking the bad with the good, I see the new system as an overall triple at the very least. And by adding back in the old "kills" way of earning XP (in addition to the new system), I feel like I am fast approaching "home run" territory for my games. |
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05-07-2019, 06:59 AM | #10 |
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Re: New Xp System: Not a Fan
How, exactly? I mean, having a 20 in all your attributes doesn't make you invulnerable. A group of strong orcs with two handed weapons hit you just as easily as they hit a character with 10s in all of theirs. Other than being good at most things (and even in the old days, you were capped by IQ at how much you could be good at), how exactly did the system break down? I see that you would hit all the time in combat, and do a lot of damage with a hit. But that's true for most FRPGs at high level.
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