32 point wizard vs 1st Level D&D Wizard

[pzmcgwire]

Back in the days of yore, it was clear a 32 point Wizard would easily outclass a level 1 AD&D wizard which had only 1 spell a day.

In 5th edition, a level 1 wizard has 3 cantrips (lesser spells) that can be used without limit, and 2 spell slots for the 6 possible spells in their starting spell book.

A little bit more evenly matched between the starting character types now, but it seems that high level magic users in D&D will greatly outclass high level TFT wizards.

[hcobb]

High level D&D wizards will have vastly more "hit points" than a very experienced TFT wizard, but will lack the dozen apprentices that know the Aid spell.

Here's my notes on character conversions: https://www.hcobb.com/tft/SRD_TFT.html

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by hcobb

High level D&D wizards will have vastly more "hit points" than a very experienced TFT wizard, but will lack the dozen apprentices that know the Aid spell.

Here's my notes on character conversions: https://www.hcobb.com/tft/SRD_TFT.html

Are you talking about PC wizards? Do you honestly anticipate PCs carrying around a dozen apprentices on an adventure?

I'm assuming that pzmcgwire is speaking about the powers of adventuring wizards, not those who earn a buck making enchanted weapons, creating gates, etc. Such wizards may well have several apprentices, but if they adventure, I'll bet they leave (almost all of) them at home.

[Axly Suregrip]

Originally Posted by phiwum

Are you talking about PC wizards? Do you honestly anticipate PCs carrying around a dozen apprentices on an adventure?

I'm assuming that pzmcgwire is speaking about the powers of adventuring wizards, not those who earn a buck making enchanted weapons, creating gates, etc. Such wizards may well have several apprentices, but if they adventure, I'll bet they leave (almost all of) them at home.

Although, not a bad idea to hire an apprentice for only $25/week to be your ST battery while on an adventure. I wonder if the guild has anything against that. Cheaper than hiring a merc wizard at $75/week.

"Young man, I will teach you the ways of magic. Follow me closely and give me Aid when I call for it. BTW, if you find yourself in danger, remember I am only hiring you as an apprentice, not a mercenary. So, it is completely voluntary if you wish to defend yourself."

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip

Although, not a bad idea to hire an apprentice for only $25/week to be your ST battery while on an adventure.

ITL 57: "have already been subtracted from these “salaries.”"
ITL 64: "and double that pay"

Assuming that in the group of Snow Heart's seven dwarven apprentices at least one knows of each of Light, Meal, and Stalwart, (or you take along a book with same, so that cost of living is zero or at most a change of robes twice a year), that's $350/week to hire the group.

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by hcobb

ITL 57: "have already been subtracted from these “salaries.”"
ITL 64: "and double that pay"

Assuming that in the group of Snow Heart's seven dwarven apprentices at least one knows of each of Light, Meal, and Stalwart, (or you take along a book with same, so that cost of living is zero or at most a change of robes twice a year), that's $350/week to hire the group.

So, not so common to take a slew of apprentices on your adventure?

I mean, I feel like I've recently overdone the treasure rather a bit, but I don't think my players are planning to pay $350 for a bunch of apprentices. I'm also not sure that dragging along seven extra characters (which I honestly probably wouldn't let them do) is conducive to most of their battle plans.

But, of course, different games are different. So far, my players have not hired a single apprentice, but maybe they're just thick.

[amenditman]

Originally Posted by phiwum

So far, my players have not hired a single apprentice, but maybe they're just thick.

I find a lot of times that players don't think of some things until the GM uses them against them with NPCs. Then all of a sudden it's their favorite trick.

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by amenditman

I find a lot of times that players don't think of some things until the GM uses them against them with NPCs. Then all of a sudden it's their favorite trick.

That's a fair point.

Far as I can recall, there's only one encounter[1] my players have had where more than one wizard is involved -- and that wizard was not merely casting Aid spells, since there are better uses of his ST and time.

In fact, in combat, I'm not sure that an Aid casting apprentice is all that great. Yes, that means the big wizard can cast a great spell without using up his ST or mana, but if the apprentice doesn't cast Aid, then there are all sorts of good spells he could be casting.

If the big wizard is able to cast 4- or 7-hex illusion, say, or Summon Small Dragon, or any of many really good high IQ spells, then Aid is a good way to maximize impact. If the big wizard doesn't have one of those expensive but really good spells, then the apprentice is probably better off doubling the number of spells cast per turn.

[1] There are a few other planned encounters that involved wizards and apprentices, but so far they haven't taken the bait. I don't use the 1 in 300 wizards to normies ratio suggested in ITL, but most combats against humanoids don't include NPC wizards.

[hcobb]

Another thing is that TFT Wizards are D&D Sorcerers. (Put that big IQ to work and just take Charisma. You won't need a spell to charm.)

In both games wizards can use crossbows, but in TFT it's a much more powerful option. TFT wizard with at most "12 hit points" firing a 2d6 weapon that averages 7 damage vs a D&D wizard with dozens of hit points firing a 1d8 weapon that averages 4.5 damage.

[Rolando]

Very different styles of playing. Mostly using game mechanics to evoke a certain narrative style.

D&D uses extra hit points and harder to hit heroes to make the action and narrative more heroic.

TFT don't, it is more grounded and it gets heroic because the stakes are higher.


Making comparisons of power level of characters is like comparing star wars characters to 40k characters... this doesn't stop anyone though.