[UT] Why Computer is a Perk but Radio is an Advantage?

CarrionPeacock · 05-13-2021, 01:46 PM

I understand that Telecommunication (Radio) is more versatile than Accessory (Radio), but if the communication capabilities of a machine is represented as an advantage on a character sheet, why the computer is a perk instead of combination of multiple advantages like Lightning Calculator?

WingedKagouti · 05-13-2021, 01:52 PM

The accessory has all the disadvantages of a normal object of that type (like needing to be powered, being susceptible to EMPs etc.) while the Advantage does not need power, repair etc. unless specifically limited.

Phil Masters · 05-13-2021, 04:13 PM

Which said, I don’t think it’d be unreasonable to allow the capabilities of any device which is available off the shelf for a sub-$200-or-so price tag to be purchased as a 1 point accessory, regardless of how they’d be priced as an advantage.

On the other hand, there’s some value to having an ability which other people just don’t expect you to have without visible gear. I remember one of the Supers books had a character whose sole power was being able to transmit anything he saw or heard as a high-quality TV signal. His plot function was Fearless Reporter; totalitarian governments were driven crazy trying to work out how all those riots and such were being reported, when their cops were carefully smashing any cameras they saw.

Sorenant · 05-13-2021, 05:24 PM

I'm not the author but here's my guess:
A computer is in essence just returns an output given an input. It's not intelligent (IQ 0) and doesn't really make any sort of calculations, it just happens that calculations can be done with it. So by itself a computer has no real capabilities, it's there to be used by someone.
In the case of machine PCs, that would likely be an Artificial Intelligence. How well the AI can use the computer it's running on depends on its programming. By default (AI meta-trait), it has good integration with the basic features of a computer (Absolute Timing, Intuitive Mathematician, Photographic Memory), but it won't be able to masterfully use Excel, AutoCAD and Photoshop as well.
Other than AIs, a mind emulation might be run on a computer as well. In this case, the mind was not created from ground up to integrate the capabilities of the machine on its conscience, so checking time, making calculations and saving data requires discrete actions/thoughts, just like normal use of (mentally controlled) computer, so it's just a perk.

Donny Brook · 05-13-2021, 05:30 PM

A radio can be an Accessory Perk just a computer can.

The more correct comparison as an Advantage is Digital Mind+Lightning Calculator+Modular Powers.

whswhs · 05-13-2021, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

A radio can be an Accessory Perk just a computer can.

The more correct comparison as an Advantage is Digital Mind+Lightning Calculator+Modular Powers.

And typically Eidetic Memory.

Pursuivant · 05-14-2021, 09:40 PM

I'd allow a radio as an Accessory only if had to be operated and powered like a conventional radio receiver/transmitter - with Electronics Operations (Communication) rolls required for tricky situations, powered by wall current or batteries, easily disabled by hits to the appropriate hit location, and capable of being removed if you are helpless. It is also likely to be restricted to using just certain known frequencies which can be jammed or monitored.

Telecommunications (Radio) allows you to communicate at long distances via radio as easily as you could speak and hear normally, it is powered by whatever you use as fuel, and can't be removed or disabled short of rendering you Mute. With the appropriate enhancements, it allows you to speak or hear on any frequency within the RF spectrum.

weby · 05-18-2021, 08:14 PM

This is my attempt to explain the difference between the advantage and gadget implant in my scifi setting rules:

Advantage vs gadget

Some of the implants can be instead bought as accessory[1] instead of normal point cost.

But with accessory they are treated as gear so they can be lost, damaged and are simply not part of you.

The difference is pretty significant for most things, but less so for others.

The example is scanning sense(Imaging Radar)[40] vs gadget(implanted Imaging Radar)[1]:

Scanning sense is a sense, you can do normal perception rolls with it and thus use it for things like you would normal vision. Gadget is just a radar with internal display, so you use electronics operation(sensors) to operate, you need to take a ready maneuver to turn it on or off and take concentrate maneuvers to use.

Thus for example aiming on something with a weapon:
Sense: Will the radar on(free action), look and you see the range(get the targeting bonus) and aim normally 1-3 seconds for accuracy.

Implanted: ready maneuver to turn it on(1 second), get the range with a concentrate and roll of electronics operation(sensors) to get range info (1 second) and then aim normally 1-3 seconds for accuracy. After that you probably want to turn off the radar(1 second) to not be radiating and not have the radar overlay part of your vision field.

Also since the implanted gadget is a gadget you need to do things like maintenance(with advantage you only need to do it if you have the needs maintenance), replace power cells and so on as you would with any gadget.

Ulzgoroth · 05-18-2021, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

I'd allow a radio as an Accessory only if had to be operated and powered like a conventional radio receiver/transmitter - with Electronics Operations (Communication) rolls required for tricky situations, powered by wall current or batteries, easily disabled by hits to the appropriate hit location, and capable of being removed if you are helpless. It is also likely to be restricted to using just certain known frequencies which can be jammed or monitored.

That's not consistent with some RAW usage. See Power Perks (Power Ups 2 p11).

Michael Thayne · 05-19-2021, 09:02 PM

"Living Better with Cybernetics", from Pyramid #3/51, suggested that the difference is that if your radio implant is a perk, you need to take Ready maneuvers to use it, while the full-blown Radio advantage means using it is second-nature, so you can "frequency hop or change bands with a thought". Ofc this is just a Pyramid article so it isn't 100% official, but it's an interesting suggestion.

05-13-2021, 01:46 PM	#1
CarrionPeacock Join Date: May 2018	[UT] Why Computer is a Perk but Radio is an Advantage? I understand that Telecommunication (Radio) is more versatile than Accessory (Radio), but if the communication capabilities of a machine is represented as an advantage on a character sheet, why the computer is a perk instead of combination of multiple advantages like Lightning Calculator?

05-13-2021, 01:52 PM	#2
WingedKagouti Join Date: Oct 2007	Re: [UT] Why Computer is a Perk but Radio is an Advantage? The accessory has all the disadvantages of a normal object of that type (like needing to be powered, being susceptible to EMPs etc.) while the Advantage does not need power, repair etc. unless specifically limited.

05-13-2021, 05:24 PM	#4
Sorenant Join Date: Jan 2015	Re: [UT] Why Computer is a Perk but Radio is an Advantage? I'm not the author but here's my guess: A computer is in essence just returns an output given an input. It's not intelligent (IQ 0) and doesn't really make any sort of calculations, it just happens that calculations can be done with it. So by itself a computer has no real capabilities, it's there to be used by someone. In the case of machine PCs, that would likely be an Artificial Intelligence. How well the AI can use the computer it's running on depends on its programming. By default (AI meta-trait), it has good integration with the basic features of a computer (Absolute Timing, Intuitive Mathematician, Photographic Memory), but it won't be able to masterfully use Excel, AutoCAD and Photoshop as well. Other than AIs, a mind emulation might be run on a computer as well. In this case, the mind was not created from ground up to integrate the capabilities of the machine on its conscience, so checking time, making calculations and saving data requires discrete actions/thoughts, just like normal use of (mentally controlled) computer, so it's just a perk.

05-13-2021, 05:30 PM	#5
Donny Brook Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Snoopy's basement	Re: [UT] Why Computer is a Perk but Radio is an Advantage? A radio can be an Accessory Perk just a computer can. The more correct comparison as an Advantage is Digital Mind+Lightning Calculator+Modular Powers.

05-14-2021, 09:40 PM	#7
Pursuivant Join Date: Apr 2005	Re: [UT] Why Computer is a Perk but Radio is an Advantage? I'd allow a radio as an Accessory only if had to be operated and powered like a conventional radio receiver/transmitter - with Electronics Operations (Communication) rolls required for tricky situations, powered by wall current or batteries, easily disabled by hits to the appropriate hit location, and capable of being removed if you are helpless. It is also likely to be restricted to using just certain known frequencies which can be jammed or monitored. Telecommunications (Radio) allows you to communicate at long distances via radio as easily as you could speak and hear normally, it is powered by whatever you use as fuel, and can't be removed or disabled short of rendering you Mute. With the appropriate enhancements, it allows you to speak or hear on any frequency within the RF spectrum.

05-13-2021, 04:13 PM	#3
Phil Masters Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: U.K.	Re: [UT] Why Computer is a Perk but Radio is an Advantage? Which said, I don’t think it’d be unreasonable to allow the capabilities of any device which is available off the shelf for a sub-$200-or-so price tag to be purchased as a 1 point accessory, regardless of how they’d be priced as an advantage. On the other hand, there’s some value to having an ability which other people just don’t expect you to have without visible gear. I remember one of the Supers books had a character whose sole power was being able to transmit anything he saw or heard as a high-quality TV signal. His plot function was Fearless Reporter; totalitarian governments were driven crazy trying to work out how all those riots and such were being reported, when their cops were carefully smashing any cameras they saw. __________________ -- Phil Masters My Home Page. My Self-Publications: On Warehouse 23 and On DriveThruRPG.

05-18-2021, 08:14 PM	#8
weby Join Date: Oct 2008	Re: [UT] Why Computer is a Perk but Radio is an Advantage? This is my attempt to explain the difference between the advantage and gadget implant in my scifi setting rules: Advantage vs gadget Some of the implants can be instead bought as accessory[1] instead of normal point cost. But with accessory they are treated as gear so they can be lost, damaged and are simply not part of you. The difference is pretty significant for most things, but less so for others. The example is scanning sense(Imaging Radar)[40] vs gadget(implanted Imaging Radar)[1]: Scanning sense is a sense, you can do normal perception rolls with it and thus use it for things like you would normal vision. Gadget is just a radar with internal display, so you use electronics operation(sensors) to operate, you need to take a ready maneuver to turn it on or off and take concentrate maneuvers to use. Thus for example aiming on something with a weapon: Sense: Will the radar on(free action), look and you see the range(get the targeting bonus) and aim normally 1-3 seconds for accuracy. Implanted: ready maneuver to turn it on(1 second), get the range with a concentrate and roll of electronics operation(sensors) to get range info (1 second) and then aim normally 1-3 seconds for accuracy. After that you probably want to turn off the radar(1 second) to not be radiating and not have the radar overlay part of your vision field. Also since the implanted gadget is a gadget you need to do things like maintenance(with advantage you only need to do it if you have the needs maintenance), replace power cells and so on as you would with any gadget. __________________ -- GURPS spaceship unofficial errata and thoughts: https://gsuc.roto.nu/

05-19-2021, 09:02 PM	#10
Michael Thayne Join Date: May 2010	Re: [UT] Why Computer is a Perk but Radio is an Advantage? "Living Better with Cybernetics", from Pyramid #3/51, suggested that the difference is that if your radio implant is a perk, you need to take Ready maneuvers to use it, while the full-blown Radio advantage means using it is second-nature, so you can "frequency hop or change bands with a thought". Ofc this is just a Pyramid article so it isn't 100% official, but it's an interesting suggestion.