Vatbrain Biocomputers

[MaryAnn]

According to Biotech...

"

A vatbrain biocomputer, or “meat matrix,” is a computer whose processing capabilities have been enhanced with living nerve tissue

",

now, as per the page 214 of the same book, the Bioengineering (Biogadgets) specialty covers

"

the creation of living equipment or vehicles

"

while Bioengineering (Tissue Engineering) in the Basic Set covers

"

the manufacture of organs and tissues

".

What would be the proper specialty for Vatbrain Biocomputers?

[Rupert]

I would go with Biogadgets, as you're making something that's a device, and of which the biological part is only one part of the whole. However, I'd also say that if you were growing the brain tissue from scratch, you'd need Tissue Engineering for that. Thus you might well need both.

[MaryAnn]

Originally Posted by Rupert

I would go with Biogadgets, as you're making something that's a device, and of which the biological part is only one part of the whole. However, I'd also say that if you were growing the brain tissue from scratch, you'd need Tissue Engineering for that. Thus you might well need both.

That's the main reason for which I think Bioengineering (Tissue Engineering) might be the relevant one, since "biogadgets" are described as

a living plant or animal that has been gengineered into functioning as a device or tool

There are things that are confusing to me about the system, but my conception of a biocomputer is not a plant or an animal, is it yours? In my mind it is more like a computer, but with neural tissue incorporated to improve certain functions, a synthesis of biological tissue with electronics.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by MaryAnn

There are things that are confusing to me about the system, but my conception of a biocomputer is not a plant or an animal, is it yours? In my mind it is more like a computer, but with neural tissue incorporated to improve certain functions, a synthesis of biological tissue with electronics.

It's usually described as the latter in GURPS (or was in 3e - I don't think 4e goes into this), but there's no reason it couldn't be a completely biological construct, depending on design and setting.

[cvannrederode]

Originally Posted by Rupert

It's usually described as the latter in GURPS (or was in 3e - I don't think 4e goes into this), but there's no reason it couldn't be a completely biological construct, depending on design and setting.

I think the details on what it is can be very setting dependent. Think of a sliding scale, where one end is "little pouches of neural tissue used as processor units", and the other end is "whole living brains harvested from adult, sapient beings."

Where on the scale your setting's vatbrains fall can have big implications for the ethics and prevalence of their use. Example: in my campaign, the Kaa can't make quantum computers, so they use vatbrains instead to solve the hyperspace navigation role.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by cvannrederode

I think the details on what it is can be very setting dependent. Think of a sliding scale, where one end is "little pouches of neural tissue used as processor units", and the other end is "whole living brains harvested from adult, sapient beings."

Where on the scale your setting's vatbrains fall can have big implications for the ethics and prevalence of their use. Example: in my campaign, the Kaa can't make quantum computers, so they use vatbrains instead to solve the hyperspace navigation role.

Last time I had a biocomputer in a game it was made by taking thin slices of sapient brain matter and wiring many of those slices up together with a silicon computer. Teens to young adults were the best source - full-sized brains that hadn't yet undergone neural pruning and thus had lots and lots or neurons and connections and were still quite plastic.

Some such computers retained scraps of memories, etc. and every so often became self-aware.

Yes, it was a horror game.

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by MaryAnn

That's the main reason for which I think Bioengineering (Tissue Engineering) might be the relevant one, since "biogadgets" are described as



There are things that are confusing to me about the system, but my conception of a biocomputer is not a plant or an animal, is it yours? In my mind it is more like a computer, but with neural tissue incorporated to improve certain functions, a synthesis of biological tissue with electronics.

That's more-or-less my conception of it, since I first read the write-up in 3e Biotech.

The way I took it, looking at a vatbrain computer from outside would look mostly like any other mainframe computer, except that there would probably be some plumping to supply nutrients to the neural tissue masses inside the machine. The silicon does the fast math, the tissue does parallel processing and fuzzy logic, more or less.

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by Rupert

Last time I had a biocomputer in a game it was made by taking thin slices of sapient brain matter and wiring many of those slices up together with a silicon computer. Teens to young adults were the best source - full-sized brains that hadn't yet undergone neural pruning and thus had lots and lots or neurons and connections and were still quite plastic.

Some such computers retained scraps of memories, etc. and every so often became self-aware.

Yes, it was a horror game.

Sounds like Dark Conspiracy tech.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

Sounds like Dark Conspiracy tech.

That campaign took a lot of inspiration from Dark Conspiracy.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

The way I took it, looking at a vatbrain computer from outside would look mostly like any other mainframe computer, except that there would probably be some plumping to supply nutrients to the neural tissue masses inside the machine. The silicon does the fast math, the tissue does parallel processing and fuzzy logic, more or less.

I'd tend to lean heavily the other way - a biocomputer is very much a brain in a tank with maybe a little electronic hardware bolted to the sides.

The little bits of tissue model requires that a few neurons be able to do *something* better than transistors, and there appears to be nothing. Electronics apparently can already do anything we see in simple nervous systems. It is still possible to claim that about whole brains though, at least for higher animal or human brains.

And it tends to match the source material where these things turn up much better, because *of course* stories about these things involve some continuity between human source brains and the resulting "machines" whether the stories are horror or cyborg power fantasy.