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Old 10-27-2009, 07:05 PM   #191
Agemegos
 
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by opposedToGravity View Post
i am also aware of the (in my opinion) overpriced pdfs.
I buy, print, and bind SJ Games's PDFs cheaper than similar softcover books. On the other hand, the writers make pittances on a royalty that is, I think, about 2025%.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:07 PM   #192
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

To follow on from whswhs:

My first fantasy campaign had the following PC:
A barmaid looking for adventure.
A musician who was the son of a leader of the neighboring bad guy country but had run away.
A drug addicted ex-Gladiator with post-combat shakes.

Only the ex-Gladiator had any combat skills.
None had any magical abilities.

It was a gritty game of exploration and political intrigue. None of the players were very interested in getting into fights if they could avoid it.

So what generic ready-to-play with no prep work adventure can you come up with that would serve my Fantasy campaign, whswhs's Fantasy campaign, and Sydney's Fantasy campaign.

If you are in a D&D world where there is a set base of assumptions about characters (one of a limited set of classes, all of whom are centered around combat in some way), and campaign setting (all characters for whom adventure revolves around killing things and getting treasure)...then campaigns aren't so hard. Regardless of how different CoC and D&D are, they are similar in that they both have a narrow built in campaign frame that make creating adventures quite easy for both systems.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:18 PM   #193
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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But it's still a genre book that still leaves a fair amount of room for the GM and party. How do you write a standardized dungeon fantasy combat scene without knowing what race or class templates the party is made of? what fantasy setting is it in? If you decide that you want to support Dungeon Fantasy with a series of adventures will you have them all share the same implied setting? Create another special Dungeon Fantasy setting? Use Banestorm? Something else?
Honestly, I don't think DF needs a setting, or at least it doesn't need strong setting ties. A lot of the adventures I saw for D&D (whether official modules, or things published in Dragon or Dungeon) didn't have strong setting ties, and were easy to place wherever the DM wanted; at worst you might have to file off a few names and make a new map. And frankly, anything that falls outside dungeon exploration, killing, and looting falls outside the scope of DF. That's not to say that you can't have long journeys through the wilderness, get involved in politics, or marry off your barbarian, but rather that you do so of your own volition, and if any of those things requires a setting, it's your own fault you decided to flesh out the world.

That said, writing "generic" adventures for DF ought to be easier than writing them for pretty much any other part of GURPS. You can already guess what abilities and power levels a party might have, and you already know what they're there to do: kill monsters and get treasure. If they're a little overpowered for an adventure, it's no big deal (and you can always make things harder if they're having an easy time); if they're a little underpowered, or don't have the right abilities, then they can drag along a couple of NPC hirelings from [nearest town or fort].

The only thing we'd need that we don't have already is a bestiary, in order to give common monsters some kind of consistency (so you don't have players asking, "wait, what do orcs look like THIS time? More tough, or less tough?"). The last time SJG tried to do a bestiary, there was so much disagreement about what sort of creatures should be in it and how they should be written up that they decided to just do specific PDFs instead. Conveniently enough, though, a lot of those arguments are meaningless in a DF context, because the focus is pretty clear: we don't need buffalo or jackalopes, we need dungeon monsters, and we don't need rules for using them as PCs.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:21 PM   #194
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

One of the things on the Bestiary wishlist is, of course, Dungeon Denizens.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:32 PM   #195
opposedToGravity
 
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper6 View Post
To follow on from whswhs:

My first fantasy campaign had the following PC:
A barmaid looking for adventure.
A musician who was the son of a leader of the neighboring bad guy country but had run away.
A drug addicted ex-Gladiator with post-combat shakes.

Only the ex-Gladiator had any combat skills.
None had any magical abilities.

It was a gritty game of exploration and political intrigue. None of the players were very interested in getting into fights if they could avoid it.

So what generic ready-to-play with no prep work adventure can you come up with that would serve my Fantasy campaign, whswhs's Fantasy campaign, and Sydney's Fantasy campaign.

If you are in a D&D world where there is a set base of assumptions about characters (one of a limited set of classes, all of whom are centered around combat in some way), and campaign setting (all characters for whom adventure revolves around killing things and getting treasure)...then campaigns aren't so hard. Regardless of how different CoC and D&D are, they are similar in that they both have a narrow built in campaign frame that make creating adventures quite easy for both systems.
sigh.. ok.
if your players like to play three legged half-dragon time travelling orcs containing the souls of fallen gods being adopted by the emperor of Giants in their infancy but being falsely accused of murdering the holy prophet of the apocalypse and now seeking asylum in the nearby country of the pixie queen, then.. indeed.. a tough challenge.

ok, now for real. every adventure makes certain assumptions that do not fit every imaginable party.
lets say the adventure is centered on the players helping someone. if they are evil or self centered it would not work.
if it is centered on a treasure hunt and the PCs are not interested in treasure then it would not work.
if it is centered on the PCs doin some job for payment but make unreasonable demands concerning their payment, then it would not work.
and so on.

so, if you decide on running a singular unusual campaign where you can use no prefab material, thats frankly your choice. but just because you chose this does not mean that all people who are interested or might get interested in gurps chose to run this type of campaign.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:39 PM   #196
opposedToGravity
 
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

on the whole i think we see two sides.

one view is that it is impossible to design any supporting ready to use scenarios for gurps because campaigns can be so different and that the future of gurps should be yet more genre books.

the other view is that 150+ genre books are enough and supporting ready to use scenarios are exactly what gurps is lacking.

i will just leave it at that.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:43 PM   #197
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by opposedToGravity View Post
ok, now for real. every adventure makes certain assumptions that do not fit every imaginable party.
Right. So the wider the range of different parties, the more difficult it is to design adventures with broad appeal.

Quote:
so, if you decide on running a singular unusual campaign where you can use no prefab material, thats frankly your choice.
Right. And if this is your choice, then GURPS is your go-to game. Result: among players who went to GURPS you find an outstandingly high proportion of players and GMs who want to run singular unusual campaigns. Corollary: you can't sell many settings and especially few adventures to these people, i.e. to GURPS fans.

But SJGames has been catering to our needs for 25 years, and while Steve Jackson is not a billionaire, neither was Gary Gygax. We've kept a few people in eatin' money for longer than most game companies last.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:51 PM   #198
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Originally Posted by opposedToGravity View Post
on the whole i think we see two sides.
Possibly some of us see both sides, and others see only one.

Let's just not forget that Steve Jackson has been in the business for thirty years, running his own company for 25. He has actually tried publishing licensed world books. He has actually tried developing world settings in-house and supporting them with adventures.

You don't see them now, not because Steve Jackson didn't think of them and hasn't tried your idea, but because the books have gone out of print. And they have gone out of print because they didn't sell.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:56 PM   #199
opposedToGravity
 
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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among players who went to GURPS you find an outstandingly high proportion of players and GMs who want to run singular unusual campaigns. Corollary: you can't sell many settings and especially few adventures to these people, i.e. to GURPS fans.
maybe. but there are also the gurps fans who prefer prefab material. and some of them said so in this thread.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:58 PM   #200
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Default Re: GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

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Possibly some of us see both sides, and others see only one.

Let's just not forget that Steve Jackson has been in the business for thirty years, running his own company for 25. He has actually tried publishing licensed world books. He has actually tried developing world settings in-house and supporting them with adventures.

You don't see them now, not because Steve Jackson didn't think of them and hasn't tried your idea, but because the books have gone out of print. And they have gone out of print because they didn't sell.
maybe they didnt sell because their basic idea was unappealing to a larger audience.
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