Studded Leather Armor

[Bill_in_IN]

Back in the 80's, after TFT had gone out of print, we came up with Metal Studded Leather Armor. It had the advantage of stopping 3 hits instead of 2 while still causing the same DX and MA mods as if it was Leather Armor.

Later, we saw in a gaming publication where this one was fairly common across other gaming groups.

Of course, if a wizard were to wear it, the metal studs had to be silver and increased price accordingly.

It's interesting that this one was figured out before the internet was available to argue about stuff like this. LOL!

I wonder if anyone is doing this today?

[TippetsTX]

Yes, but it's called 'reinforced' leather armor on my list and it covers the spot where chainmail exists on the RAW list (I use an expanded list of armors).

[Chris Rice]

It kinda breaks the cost/benefit dynamic of TFT armour because it gives the same protection as chain mail without the DX penalty. So it makes chainmail redundant unless there is another penalty like cost or availability. Personally I don’t like the idea.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Chris Rice

It kinda breaks the cost/benefit dynamic of TFT armour because it gives the same protection as chain mail without the DX penalty. So it makes chainmail redundant unless there is another penalty like cost or availability. Personally I don’t like the idea.

I don't remember the exact cost that we used but it would have been similar to making a fine version of leather armor. So, it was expensive compared to leather or chainmail. We looked at it in terms of time and materials. Making and adding the studs would be like that.

So, does that make you like it more?

I know fellow that actually makes armor. He also is into gaming. He makes mostly various forms of leather with studs and plates in various styles but are mostly Roman and medievil. He agreed with our approach but failed to see how it would be more expensive than chainmail. He showed me chainmail that he made and it took massive amounts of time. He said that studded leather would take much less time to make but would require more maintenance. He is a long time member of a local SCA (Society of Creative Anachronism) group.

[Shostak]

I don’t see metal studs providing all that much protection over standard leather if an entire seamless coat of fine, interlocking rings beats it by only+1.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Shostak

I don’t see metal studs providing all that much protection over standard leather if an entire seamless coat of fine, interlocking rings beats it by only+1.

My friend that makes armor actually prefers adding small metal plates to the leather because they are easier to make, attach, and maintain. He said that they do add a little more protection over straight leather without adding enough weight to change the encumbrance factor. So, if someone wants to pay for the extra time, material, and maintenance. I think that I will follow the guidance of someone that has been making armor for over 30 years. It is possible but has some pitfalls.

He makes armor for other SCA members that actively engage in non-blade fighting. Much of the armor that he makes is actually used and maintained. They have minimum armor requirements for safety. This guy is a true craftsman.

The added studs is what we came up with ourselves back in the day but studs was a broader label for metal pieces. If I had know my armor making friend back then, we probably would have called it something different per his recommendation.

Having said all of this, my armorer friend said that he would still rather make either Leather Armor or Chainmail. He wasn't fond of making chainmail because of the making of rings and then intertwining them was very time consuming process. He did make some Roman style 'skirts' (I can't remember their exact name). It was basically worn like a skirt. It was a leather belt with plate metal strips hanging down with flexible leather pleats. They were the bottom part of Roman Breast Plate. Most of the metal that he added to leather armor was ornamental. Usually thin stamped, bronze plated metal that he would stamp artwork into.

So, the addition of such an armor type would be very costly if someone really wanted it. Getting Toughness talent would probably be more easily obtained.

[Shostak]

I thought we were talking about studs. Wouldn't metal plates sewn onto leather be categorized as scale armor? Referencing GURPS, which has a reputation for being pretty well researched, leather armor for the torso weighs in at 10 lbs, scale armor at 15 lbs, and chainmail at 16 lbs. If we use weight as a reference, the scale is closer to chainmail than leather. And if we consider the damage resistence it offers, the scale lies between leather (2) and chain (4) (GURPS provides finer-grained resolution than TFT).

[hcobb]

Half-plate is just a brigandine worn over chainmail.
When worn over gambeson (the actual "leather armor") it has the effect of chainmail.
So 15 pounds, $100, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzhAhRZzCrA

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Shostak

I thought we were talking about studs. Wouldn't metal plates sewn onto leather be categorized as scale armor? Referencing GURPS, which has a reputation for being pretty well researched, leather armor for the torso weighs in at 10 lbs, scale armor at 15 lbs, and chainmail at 16 lbs. If we use weight as a reference, the scale is closer to chainmail than leather. And if we consider the damage resistence it offers, the scale lies between leather (2) and chain (4) (GURPS provides finer-grained resolution than TFT).

As I explained, studded Leather Armor is what we called it back in the day to generically refer to either studs or small metal plates. The thought was that these studs or plates were small enough to still have sufficient exposed leather. By reading through what I posted per my armorer friend's discussion about such an armor, his opinion was more of "Why bother" even though he agreed that it could be done without the armor adding more encumbrance. Too much work to get a little bit more protection. Doable but very expensive even if you could find someone that would do it.

If the plates were larger with no gaps or overlapping, then he believed that you were into plate mail with all of the modifiers that go along with that.

So, the thought exercise on this as I look back was that it wasn't impossible but very cost prohibitive which, to me, means that our incorporation of it wasn't wrong but wasn't practical either from an armorer's POV.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Shostak

I thought we were talking about studs. Wouldn't metal plates sewn onto leather be categorized as scale armor? Referencing GURPS, which has a reputation for being pretty well researched, leather armor for the torso weighs in at 10 lbs, scale armor at 15 lbs, and chainmail at 16 lbs. If we use weight as a reference, the scale is closer to chainmail than leather. And if we consider the damage resistence it offers, the scale lies between leather (2) and chain (4) (GURPS provides finer-grained resolution than TFT).

If you look up historical brigandine, it was pretty nifty. The plates were concealed (somewhat for practicality, as that provided environmental protection, somewhat for fashion, which you simply cannot ignore when looking at historical anything) between layers of cloth or leather, and the studs were showing.

In practice, it was ginormously protective. Like scale in many cases, but built a bit differently. I believe in GURPS brigandine has DR 5, with heavy mail coming in at DR 4/2 and light mail at DR 3/1. Once you have the tech for it, plate and segmented plate start at something like DR 2 or 3 and go up to DR 10. FWIW, 1mm of plate is something like DR 2-3 depending on time, materials, and methods.