Not combat related - But anybody have game mechanics for fire fighting?

[CardDiceian]

I know melee etc is really about man to man combat - But from a RPG point. anything can happen in the story.

In one segment of my town a fire will break out. Do you think it makes more sense for the players to just say - (we organise a chain from the well to the fire, and put out the fire) - end of story.

Or should there be some dice rolling in place to determine how well they do at getting the fire under control,a nd establishing if anyone is hurt etc?

[JLV]

Well, putting a fire out is more or less a contest between you getting enough water (or other fire suppressant) on the fire and the amount of fuel the fire can burn during that process (in order to expand and grow).

Since Steve is adding contest rules to the game, I think this would be an excellent example of where to use them. E.g.; perhaps a recurring contest, which, if the players win three in a row, causes the fire to go out, and if the fire wins three in a row, means the players (and NPCs) have to run for their lives and the fire is out of control. You could adjust the player chances to win each contest based on anything clever they think of to help put out the fire, and the fire's chances to win would increase if, say, an arsonist were throwing lamp oil on the blaze on the side away from the players... ;-)

[Chris Goodwin]

I would almost treat a fire as if it were a creature. Give it ST and DX scores and MA. Its MA determines how fast it can spread, and its ST its size and how much damage it does, as well as how many "hits" of water damage (or other extinguishing substance) it takes to put it out.

[ecz]

whatever you approach is, I would decide in advance three possible levels of fire damage:
Trivial, moderate, heavy
assigning the consequences for the players and for the town at each level.

Then make the fight or the contest "fire vs PC and allies" in the way you decide.
at the end you assign the final level of damage and tell to the players what fire has destroyed ( hitting eventually someway the players property)

[Skarg]

One could start with the missing rules for how hard it is to put out the fire on someone soaked in burning molotail oil.

I'd love to see a fun set of fire rules that makes fire spread and extinguishing and smoke and so on interesting and reasonable.

It comes up pretty often in play - people wanting to use fire arrows and other pyromaniac antics to burn things down, etc.

Accidental fires can also spring up from dropping & knocking over light sources, missing with fireballs and molotails, flaming weapons, etc.

[CardDiceian]

Originally Posted by Skarg

It comes up pretty often in play - people wanting to use fire arrows and other pyromaniac antics to burn things down, etc.

Accidental fires can also spring up from dropping & knocking over light sources, missing with fireballs and molotails, flaming weapons, etc.

You're right - I hadn't really thought of it before - until I came up with this very specific scenario. But Of course the whole dynamics of a combat situation would change for everybody if the tavern they are fighting in is suddenly full of smoke and flames - Everybody on both sides would probably either be just trying to escape, or even joining forces to get the fire under control.

This is something I will try first:

COMBATING FIRE.

a bucket of water will do 1d+2 damage to fire hex - each fire hex has ST2
any hit overspill will continue in straight line to next hex *To hit fire is at +3DX as it is not moving to avoid being hit*
A failed DX means you did not find the right moment to throw water.
A critical failure (17-18) means you wasted the water.

You may attempt to 'smother' a fire hex - using earth, or blanket, or beating with something else - 1d-2 - (cannot extend beyond hex being fought) - A critical failure (17-18)will draw flames into your hex.

Fire spread - 1d (direction) - 1d-2 # of new fire hexes - (each one will be as close to touching one of original fire hexes as possible)

If fire lands on your figure - = 2 hits damage
if figure ends movement turn in fire hex - 4 hits damage
all effects are cumulative. (see rules for FIRE - Ad Wizard)

**You are not actually 'engaged' with fire, so can move away without penalty.

There is no DX adjustment to throwing the water from a hex that is NOT adjacent to a fire hex - however, all damage to the fire is calcualted as if all hexes are fire - (That is, you still need to remove 2 hits for each hex the water passes through.

If you are carrying a full bucket - maximum movement is 2 hexes - for each hex over that, your damage throw is reduced by 2 hit point.

Therefore if you moved:
3 hexes - 1d
4 hexes - 1d-2
5 hexes - 1d-4
**There is no point in moving any faster and attempting to throw the remaining water**

Collecting water -
Draw from well - (1 min - 12 turns)
Pump from hand pump - (30 secs - 6 turns)
Scoop from open water - river/fountain - (10 secs - 2 turns)
Pass bucket to next person in chain - 2 hex (5 secs - 1 turn)

[CardDiceian]

Using the above rules in a test fire-fight I discovered the following.

Fire spreads very quickly, and can get well beyond control within a very few rounds.

Getting water even a very short distance, even from a scooped source is painfully slow.

[JLV]

Keep in mind that the actual rate of fire spread is highly dependent on circumstances -- how much fuel is there? How dry is the fuel (if it rained a day or two ago, it's going to be a lot harder to burn)? How high are the winds? Is the fire big enough to begin drawing wind into the base as the heat causes the air within the fire to rise (creating a firestorm, a la Hamburg or Dresden)? Are there any accelerants available (barrels of alcohol or lamp oil, for example)?

Simulating a fire can be as complex as you want it to be. But frankly, I wouldn't go all technical on this; a simple contest would probably be the most efficient way to handle it in game terms without getting into all the complexities. TFT is supposed to be a pretty simple game... ;-)

[CardDiceian]

Originally Posted by JLV

Simulating a fire can be as complex as you want it to be. But frankly, I wouldn't go all technical on this; a simple contest would probably be the most efficient way to handle it in game terms without getting into all the complexities. TFT is supposed to be a pretty simple game... ;-)

Yes. Totally agree it needs to be kept fairly simple. I just had a very quick game (solo) - with 6 men extinguishing a fire, using the rules above - (tweaked slightly - so I will edit the amendments) -The fire was still unpredictable, and 'could' get out of hand. The men managed to extinguish it in the end, two suffered burns.

it played out quite tensely and was not overcomplicated. I'd happily incorporate it into an adventure.