Psionic Powers modifiers & modifier costs

[Prince Charon]

NOTE: new questions in this post.

Have some ideas and questions on modifiers for Astral Travel, and one for Telereceive.

* In GURPS Monster Hunters 1, p23, there's an Accessibility limitation for Precognition called 'Only While Dreaming, -70%'. Would that limitation give the same cost-reduction to Astral Travel, or is it less inconvenient for the latter, since your body is mostly helpless, either way (something that's not as often a problem with Precognition)?

* How large an enhancement is required to remove the need for Astral Crossing rolls to get in and out of the Inner Plane? Is +10% or +5% appropriate (reverse of the 'Requires (Attribute) Roll' limitation from Powers p112), or should it be a bit worse? Is it more something to handle with a perk?

* In a fair number of settings that feature the Inner Astral Plane, there are many realms (or whichever term the author prefers) one can visit, and thus, some of the limitations for Jumper might be appropriate for Astral Travel. Infinite Worlds p174 offers the Limited Access limitation, with varying costs depending on how many worlds you can go to. I can't think of any reason why that couldn't be applied to Astral Travel, limiting the Traveler in the Inner Plane to one or more specific realms (plus the physical world), but are there any I haven't thought of?


* In some settings, in general, and sometimes for some types of Telepaths, but not others in the same setting, Telereceive is Always On, and rarely do telepaths seem to have any more difficulty reading at least surface thoughts that a non-deaf person has of understanding someone nearby, talking in a language the listener knows at Native level (e. g. Betazoids in Star Trek, Human telepaths in Babylon 5). While this could simply be very high skill in the telepaths depicted, it's generally implied that this is just how their telepathy works. This doesn't seem to fit either Supersensitive, nor the Uncontrollable limitation; it seems more like Always On, plus a 'No Skill Roll Required for Surface Thoughts' enhancement or perk (which doesn't cover Mind Block or Mind Shield). Does this seem workable, and if so, at what costs? Should I just note it as a Feature, and assume the costs cancel each-other out?

[Terwin]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

* In some settings, in general, and sometimes for some types of Telepaths, but not others in the same setting, Telereceive is Always On, and rarely do telepaths seem to have any more difficulty reading at least surface thoughts that a non-deaf person has of understanding someone nearby, talking in a language the listener knows at Native level (e. g. Betazoids in Star Trek, Human telepaths in Babylon 5). While this could simply be very high skill in the telepaths depicted, it's generally implied that this is just how their telepathy works. This doesn't seem to fit either Supersensitive, nor the Uncontrollable limitation; it seems more like Always On, plus a 'No Skill Roll Required for Surface Thoughts' enhancement or perk (which doesn't cover Mind Block or Mind Shield). Does this seem workable, and if so, at what costs? Should I just note it as a Feature, and assume the costs cancel each-other out?

Isn't the standard enhancement to turn something into a sense Reflexive(Powers 109)?

The 'your thoughts are voices in my head' scenario sounds a lot like mind reading with Reflexive at first glance.

[B9anders]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

* In GURPS Monster Hunters 1, p23, there's an Accessibility limitation for Precognition called 'Only While Dreaming, -70%'. Would that limitation give the same cost-reduction to Astral Travel, or is it less inconvenient for the latter, since your body is mostly helpless, either way (something that's not as often a problem with Precognition)?

I'd call it -5/-10% disadvantage for astral projection. It is a huge change for Precognition. A very minor one for astral projection that already needs 10 minute prep (falling asleep) and leaves you as incapacitated as a sleeping person (dreaming).

* How large an enhancement is required to remove the need for Astral Crossing rolls to get in and out of the Inner Plane? Is +10% or +5% appropriate (reverse of the 'Requires (Attribute) Roll' limitation from Powers p112), or should it be a bit worse? Is it more something to handle with a perk?

Astral Crossing is -8. Suggesting it is originally a derived as an +80% enhancement (although IIRC it really is an adaptation of Jumper, a 100 point ability). But generally removing skill rolls does not mesh very well with the design of Psionic Powers.

If your modified skill level for this technique is 16+, you can just go for the "no nuissance rolls" perk.

* In some settings, in general, and sometimes for some types of Telepaths, but not others in the same setting, Telereceive is Always On, and rarely do telepaths seem to have any more difficulty reading at least surface thoughts that a non-deaf person has of understanding someone nearby, talking in a language the listener knows at Native level (e. g. Betazoids in Star Trek, Human telepaths in Babylon 5). While this could simply be very high skill in the telepaths depicted, it's generally implied that this is just how their telepathy works. This doesn't seem to fit either Supersensitive, nor the Uncontrollable limitation; it seems more like Always On, plus a 'No Skill Roll Required for Surface Thoughts' enhancement or perk (which doesn't cover Mind Block or Mind Shield). Does this seem workable, and if so, at what costs? Should I just note it as a Feature, and assume the costs cancel each-other out?

Psionic Campaigns have several different ideas for how to emulate it, at both character and campaign tweak level.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

* In GURPS Monster Hunters 1, p23, there's an Accessibility limitation for Precognition called 'Only While Dreaming, -70%'. Would that limitation give the same cost-reduction to Astral Travel, or is it less inconvenient for the latter, since your body is mostly helpless, either way (something that's not as often a problem with Precognition)?

I'd say "Only While Dreaming, -30%" when applied to the "Astral Travel" version of Insubstantiality.

(Preparation Required (10 minutes ~ 1 hour ~ 8 hours) (Variable), (-45%; Weakened Without, *1/2; Immediate, *3/2) -33.75%); rounded down to -30% to account for various little factors and to satisfy the assumed GURPS pentaphilia.

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

* How large an enhancement is required to remove the need for Astral Crossing rolls to get in and out of the Inner Plane? Is +10% or +5% appropriate (reverse of the 'Requires (Attribute) Roll' limitation from Powers p112), or should it be a bit worse? Is it more something to handle with a perk?

+80%. A default of -8 means the enhancement the power technique was made from is valued at +80%.

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

* In a fair number of settings that feature the Inner Astral Plane, there are many realms (or whichever term the author prefers) one can visit, and thus, some of the limitations for Jumper might be appropriate for Astral Travel. Infinite Worlds p174 offers the Limited Access limitation, with varying costs depending on how many worlds you can go to. I can't think of any reason why that couldn't be applied to Astral Travel, limiting the Traveler in the Inner Plane to one or more specific realms (plus the physical world), but are there any I haven't thought of?

You'd apply it to "Astral Crossing" (the enhancement | power stunt technique), not to "Astral Travel" (the Insubstantiality advantage). This'd reduce the default penalty by 1/10th of the Limited Access limitation's percentage value; round towards the higher default penalty.

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

* In some settings, in general, and sometimes for some types of Telepaths, but not others in the same setting, Telereceive is Always On, and rarely do telepaths seem to have any more difficulty reading at least surface thoughts that a non-deaf person has of understanding someone nearby, talking in a language the listener knows at Native level (e. g. Betazoids in Star Trek, Human telepaths in Babylon 5). While this could simply be very high skill in the telepaths depicted, it's generally implied that this is just how their telepathy works. This doesn't seem to fit either Supersensitive, nor the Uncontrollable limitation; it seems more like Always On, plus a 'No Skill Roll Required for Surface Thoughts' enhancement or perk (which doesn't cover Mind Block or Mind Shield). Does this seem workable, and if so, at what costs? Should I just note it as a Feature, and assume the costs cancel each-other out?

Reflexive, +40%.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

You'd apply it to "Astral Crossing" (the enhancement | power stunt technique), not to "Astral Travel" (the Insubstantiality advantage). This'd reduce the default penalty by 1/10th of the Limited Access limitation's percentage value; round towards the higher default penalty.

So, it would be worth -2.5%, at most (highest value IW gives for Limited Access is -25%), or should I set it up to -5%, for reasons of pentaphilia?

[PK]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Have some ideas and questions on modifiers for Astral Travel, and one for Telereceive.

* In GURPS Monster Hunters 1, p23, there's an Accessibility limitation for Precognition called 'Only While Dreaming, -70%'. Would that limitation give the same cost-reduction to Astral Travel, or is it less inconvenient for the latter, since your body is mostly helpless, either way (something that's not as often a problem with Precognition)?

It definitely would not give -70%! A huge part of that -70% (-60% worth, to be precise) is the fact that you're losing Danger Sense. If Danger Sense hadn't been bundled into Precognition, Only While Dreaming would be a much different value.

Frankly, I wouldn't give any point break for "Only While Dreaming" to Astral Travel. By definition, your body already has to fall completely unconscious -- it's inherently more limited than having to merely be asleep!

* How large an enhancement is required to remove the need for Astral Crossing rolls to get in and out of the Inner Plane? Is +10% or +5% appropriate (reverse of the 'Requires (Attribute) Roll' limitation from Powers p112), or should it be a bit worse? Is it more something to handle with a perk?

This isn't really something an enhancement would cover, because the Astral Crossing technique is actually a special case. (See the Designer's Notes in Pyramid #3/9: Space Opera for details.) But if you really wanted to make it an enhancement, Sunrunners_Fire's suggestion of +80% is arguably a fair value.

* In a fair number of settings that feature the Inner Astral Plane, there are many realms (or whichever term the author prefers) one can visit, and thus, some of the limitations for Jumper might be appropriate for Astral Travel. Infinite Worlds p174 offers the Limited Access limitation, with varying costs depending on how many worlds you can go to. I can't think of any reason why that couldn't be applied to Astral Travel, limiting the Traveler in the Inner Plane to one or more specific realms (plus the physical world), but are there any I haven't thought of?

Sounds interesting. As a compromise, perhaps you could say that the psi has to treat each Inner Plane as a separate Astral Crossing technique, and can only visit IPs for which he's bought off the penalty completely. (This may lead to the normally unbalanced situation in which he spends more on the techniques than he would by simply raising the skill, but if there's a benefit to having access to multiple IPs, that could be worth it.)

* In some settings, in general, and sometimes for some types of Telepaths, but not others in the same setting, Telereceive is Always On, and rarely do telepaths seem to have any more difficulty reading at least surface thoughts that a non-deaf person has of understanding someone nearby, talking in a language the listener knows at Native level (e. g. Betazoids in Star Trek, Human telepaths in Babylon 5). While this could simply be very high skill in the telepaths depicted, it's generally implied that this is just how their telepathy works. This doesn't seem to fit either Supersensitive, nor the Uncontrollable limitation; it seems more like Always On, plus a 'No Skill Roll Required for Surface Thoughts' enhancement or perk (which doesn't cover Mind Block or Mind Shield). Does this seem workable, and if so, at what costs? Should I just note it as a Feature, and assume the costs cancel each-other out?

I address this in full in GURPS Psionic Campaigns -- in fact, there's an entire section + box devoted to the concept of such an effortless mind reader. (Don't let the seemingly fluffy nature fool you; there's actually quite a bit of crunch tucked away in there.)

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by PK

I address this in full in GURPS Psionic Campaigns -- in fact, there's an entire section + box devoted to the concept of such an effortless mind reader. (Don't let the seemingly fluffy nature fool you; there's actually quite a bit of crunch tucked away in there.)

... I have that one. Guess I should re-read it. Wee!

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by PK

It definitely would not give -70%! A huge part of that -70% (-60% worth, to be precise) is the fact that you're losing Danger Sense. If Danger Sense hadn't been bundled into Precognition, Only While Dreaming would be a much different value.

Frankly, I wouldn't give any point break for "Only While Dreaming" to Astral Travel. By definition, your body already has to fall completely unconscious -- it's inherently more limited than having to merely be asleep!

Fair enough. The general concept was that the character doing it wasn't doing it consciously, so maybe a 'Sleep-Projecting' quirk or disad would fit better (plus probably Uncontrollable, since she isn't really doing it on purpose, even if she likes going).

Originally Posted by PK

This isn't really something an enhancement would cover, because the Astral Crossing technique is actually a special case. (See the Designer's Notes in Pyramid #3/9: Space Opera for details.) But if you really wanted to make it an enhancement, Sunrunners_Fire's suggestion of +80% is arguably a fair value.

Hmm. Probably just give her/them the skill and technique, then, and Uncontrollable.

What about just automatically returning to your body from the Inner Plane when the time is up: you have to roll to get there, but not to come home, as long as your body hasn't been killed while you were away. +40%? +50%?

Originally Posted by PK

Sounds interesting. As a compromise, perhaps you could say that the psi has to treat each Inner Plane as a separate Astral Crossing technique, and can only visit IPs for which he's bought off the penalty completely. (This may lead to the normally unbalanced situation in which he spends more on the techniques than he would by simply raising the skill, but if there's a benefit to having access to multiple IPs, that could be worth it.)

Eh, no, doesn't fit the concept of the Inner Plane I've been planning for Five Earths (meant to point that thread out to you, before), though it could be useful for other settings. Projectors wandering freely is the default; only being able to visit, say, the Realm of the Sidhe (or 'the Potterverse', or 'Star Trek', or another fictional Realm) is somewhat unusual, though not unique (was thinking it surprises Projectors and Astral Entities from other Earths, how common it is on one of them).

I do need a better name than Realm, though, since that has a specific meaning in the crunch. Demesne, maybe? Domain? Subplane?

Originally Posted by PK

I address this in full in GURPS Psionic Campaigns -- in fact, there's an entire section + box devoted to the concept of such an effortless mind reader. (Don't let the seemingly fluffy nature fool you; there's actually quite a bit of crunch tucked away in there.)

Do I have that one? *looks* I do.

I'm guessing the box is the one on p27.

Will probably use Always On with the -10% penalty of Uncontrollable, since the human telepaths in B5 and the Betazoids in Star Trek don't seem to so much 'lose control' as 'never stop hearing the thoughts of those in range (if they don't concentrate on ignoring them, which Lwaxana never seemed to both with)'. If I were doing straight B5, I'd probably have Easy to Read (Psychic Only) be the default state as suggested, but Five Earths has some people (>1% of the population) on the modern Earth getting powers based on things they're particularly interested in (generally at low levels, though the PCs may be exceptions to that), so you get multiple styles of telepathy, very many styles of 'magic', and so forth. Some of them will probably have the Cosmic Power (No Rule of 16) enhancement, though. Very useful idea, that.

I feel like I'm forgetting something, but this will do.

[Prince Charon]

A very simple (and obvious in hindsight) solution to one of the problems I created this thread for just recently fell into my eyes from this old thread (thanks, Fnordianslip!), which I found for other reasons: Since the visits to the Astral Domain of Hogwarts only occur for the purpose of study, it's really just the Reawakened advantage with an 'Astral Projection, -10%' limitation added, much the way a Jedi holocron would generally be Reawakened with Gadget limitations (though a Sith holocron is potentially something much nastier).

Of course, I could be wrong about this being a workable set-up.

Thoughts?

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

* In some settings, in general, and sometimes for some types of Telepaths, but not others in the same setting, Telereceive is Always On, and rarely do telepaths seem to have any more difficulty reading at least surface thoughts that a non-deaf person has of understanding someone nearby, talking in a language the listener knows at Native level (e. g. Betazoids in Star Trek, Human telepaths in Babylon 5). While this could simply be very high skill in the telepaths depicted, it's generally implied that this is just how their telepathy works. This doesn't seem to fit either Supersensitive, nor the Uncontrollable limitation; it seems more like Always On, plus a 'No Skill Roll Required for Surface Thoughts' enhancement or perk (which doesn't cover Mind Block or Mind Shield). Does this seem workable, and if so, at what costs? Should I just note it as a Feature, and assume the costs cancel each-other out?

Start with Mind Reading [30],

Concentrate for one second and roll a Quick Contest of IQ vs. the subject’s Will. Modify the roll for range penalties to the subject (see p. 550).

If you lose, you may try again, at a cumulative -2 per repeated attempt on that subject in the past hour. Should you critically fail, you cannot read that person again for 24 hours.

With IQ 10 vs WILL 10 you have a 35.18% chance of winning. And if you try again after losing, your odds of winning are further reduced.

Adding Reflexive +40% [Total 42] means you don't need to Concentrate, but gives you a -4 penalty, with 6 (IQ10-4) vs WILL 10 you have a 5.47% chance of winning. And if you try again after losing, your odds of winning are further reduced.

Adding Reliable +10, +50% [Total 57] 16 (IQ10+10-4) vs WILL 10 you have a 90.64% chance of winning. But if you try again after losing, your odds of winning are reduced.

Adding Decreased Immunity 3, +150% [102] 16 vs WILL 10 you have a 90.64% chance of winning. And if you try again after losing, your odds of winning are not reduced and even on a Critical Failure the subject is not immune for a day. You can just hammer on their defences until you get through.

Turns/Chance that you will be resisted (16 vs 10)

  1                           9.3621399177%
  2                           0.8764966384%
  3                           0.0820588417%
  4                           0.0076824636%
  5                           0.0007192430%

If those odds aren't good enough, or you want to deal with people who have Will much higher than 10, buy Talent and IQ, and Cosmic (No Rule of 16) +50% [117].


Finally, add Area Effect +50%/level, now you can simultaneously attempt to read the minds of everyone in you radius.