Alternate XP progression schedule

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Under my scheme:
32 point character: zero XP
36 point character: 10k XP
40 point character: 36k XP
48 point character: 136k XP

So doubling the number of added points increases the total number of XPs by about four times. Hence quadratic. Under the current system adding two attribute points increases the total cost by about four times, hence exponential.

So, this sort of answers my original question in this thread. In your games, the highest attribute total is 34 or 35?

[hcobb]

I was laying it out as an alternative with a less steep ramp.


Actually I'm fine with Legacy's "freezing" of attributes as it helps to maintain character distinction.

[TippetsTX]

So mathematical definitions aside, I hear where David is coming from, but I believe a certain degree of slowed progression as the character moves into higher 'levels' of experience is appropriate, even realistic.

My own model eschews the exponential increases of Legacy and Classic TFT, but still keeps the idea "the higher you go, the harder it gets".

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Under my scheme:
32 point character: zero XP
36 point character: 10k XP
40 point character: 36k XP
48 point character: 136k XP

So doubling the number of added points increases the total number of XPs by about four times. Hence quadratic. Under the current system adding two attribute points increases the total cost by about four times, hence exponential.

I was indeed being foolish earlier. There is a very well-known quadratic representation of the sums involved.

1 + 2 + ... + n = n(n + 1) / 2

Duh. Very, very well known, but it slipped my mind.

However, there is some ambiguity over what it means to say an experience progression is quadratic or exponential. In TFT, the table lists XP needed for the next attribute point. Hence, when we speak of the XP progression being quadratic, it is natural to mean that the entries in this table proceed as a quadratic.

In certain games, such as a common one which has (I just found) the same XP progression you suggest, the tables list total XP, not the XP between "levels". Quadratic progression of these figures corresponds to linear progression of TFT style tables.

As it happens, exponential progression of one corresponds to exponential progression of the other, so there is no real ambiguity there, as far as I can tell.

[David Bofinger]

And that's why everyone uses exponential: it's the only function where the cumulative and marginal functions are the same and nobody gets into pointless semantic arguments.

[David Bofinger]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Replace exponential with quadratic.
The first added attribute costs 1k, the second 2k, the third 3k, and so on.

But why should it be quadratic? Start with the reason, not the answer.

[David Bofinger]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

I believe a certain degree of slowed progression as the character moves into higher 'levels' of experience is appropriate, even realistic.

I'm assuming the experience system is really just for the benefit of PCs, and NPCs get whatever they get. Arguably that's a sacrifice in realism. But the alternative - setting up an experience system that allows you to do Henryesque calculations of the attribute distribution of NPCs - is almost certainly impractical.

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

But why should it be quadratic? Start with the reason, not the answer.

I know you are directing this at Henry, but for me, it's the desire for a more gradual climb. The exponential ramp is too extreme, too proscriptive.

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

I'm assuming the experience system is really just for the benefit of PCs, and NPCs get whatever they get. Arguably that's a sacrifice in realism. But the alternative - setting up an experience system that allows you to do Henryesque calculations of the attribute distribution of NPCs - is almost certainly impractical.

I use it as my framework for NPCs as well, but not to create attribute distributions.

[Axly Suregrip]

An alternate fix to this is to increase the amount of XP given out. Say if you average game night averages 100 XP, then give out 200 XP.

This will shrink the XP whole scale by half. At some point you don't want humans (and the like) to continue to gain attributes. That will still happen but later. This will also make other purchases easier (Staff mana, talents, etc).

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BTW, I think talents (per point) should never cost more than an attribute point. This can be done by saying a talent (per point) costs 500 XP or the cost of an attribute, whichever is cheapest. So, a beginning character can learn a 1 point skill for only 100 XP. They do say that the young learn faster than the old. But mostly this opens up talents to being acceptable purchases early on, instead of waiting until your character gets to 36 points.