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Old 02-07-2020, 11:40 AM   #1
Rahvin_T
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Default Injury Tolerance: (varies), JUST damage mitigation

I'm attempting to model a form hand-wavy regeneration modeled off of Psychometabolism: Damage Control (p75) with it being assumed the damage mitigation is your regeneration healing the damage so fast it's not a concern. With the eventual inclusion (Level 8) of Diffuse + Damage Reduction 2 (Cosmic, round damage down, +50%) to mitigate nickle and dime bullet death.

However, the power really doesn't handle some of the edge cases really well (Choking, Heart Attack, Grappling Paralysis (muscular) ), as I want the user to still be affected by these affects / afflictions. I'm also curious how the power designer intended these affects to work on someone with Damage Control?

How might I go about excluding the above edge cases (and any other I've missed)? Would Limited Defense (Physical damage), -20% be enough to do it? I've scoured the forums but couldn't find any sort of discussion.

Thanks in advance,

RT.

Last edited by Rahvin_T; 02-07-2020 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 02-07-2020, 11:55 AM   #2
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Injury Tolerance: (varies), JUST damage mitigation

So, the Damage Reduction would probably apply at the same time as Diffuse, since that is how Injury Tolerance works, so it would be relatively worthless (except against large area attacks). A better option would be Insubstantiality (to avoid all damage) or Regeneration (Extreme) (to instantly heal all damage).
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Old 02-07-2020, 11:57 AM   #3
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Default Re: Injury Tolerance: (varies), JUST damage mitigation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahvin_T View Post
I'm attempting to model a form hand-wavy regeneration modeled off of Psychometabolism (...)
Just wondering about this, wouldn't it be easier assessing this with psionic/psycho-kinetic Damage Resistance? You can apply some limitations and enhancements to attain regeneration and the quirks you seem to desire.
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Old 02-07-2020, 12:29 PM   #4
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Injury Tolerance: (varies), JUST damage mitigation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahvin_T View Post
I'm attempting to model a form hand-wavy regeneration modeled off of Psychometabolism: Damage Control (p77)
That's on the left column of page 75 of Psionic Powers.

If your approach is to JUST use Injury Tolerance (Damage Reduction) from Powers instead of the Basic Set versions of Injury Tolerance that this version also uses in levels 1-3, I like it! In that case it's just "I'm hardening myself all-around" rather than "just my vital organs".

One thing I never noticed about that:
you’ll always get a minimum of 1 point of damage, except with crushing
This would only apply in the 4th/6th/7th levels when the rightmost "other" column is altered.

Is that intended to mean that we could actually round down fractions when you're applying sub-one wound multipliers for Penetrating Damage from Crushing Attack? I can't remember that being mentioned in Powers. It's kind of super-important!

The "minimum 1" is not in the basic description (P53) but P118 mentioned it:
Minimum injury from an attack that pierces DR is always 1 HP
which is from B379:
the minimum injury is 1 HP for any attack that penetrates DR at all
Does the PP75 description of "Damage Control" seem to ignore that rule inexplicably for Crushing Damage?

All I can figure, if it's not introducing some kind of new rule, is it's operating under the assumption that this person will definitely not have any DR, and so is referring to how crushing attacks have minimum Basic Damage of zero while all other types have minumum BD of 1.

If so, it's a weird assumption since the very next page also suggests buying DR w/ Tough Skin for Psychometabolism too.
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Old 02-07-2020, 10:44 PM   #5
Rahvin_T
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Default Re: Injury Tolerance: (varies), JUST damage mitigation

Thanks for the replies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
So, the Damage Reduction would probably apply at the same time as Diffuse, since that is how Injury Tolerance works, so it would be relatively worthless (except against large area attacks). A better option would be Insubstantiality (to avoid all damage) or Regeneration (Extreme) (to instantly heal all damage).
I'm not quite sure that is correct, unless I've mis-read something it appears to apply after wounding modifiers; which Diffuse seems to be.

Code:
Powers p52. Damage Reduction: You divide the
injury you suffer by 2, 3, or 4 after subtracting
DR from damage and applying
wounding modifiers.
I'm avoiding Insubstantiality as it doesn't match the Power Source (Bio) and regeneration as it simply can't keep up with damage even at extreme levels ( 10 guys all firing assault rifles at you as a off the cuff example ). And in all likelihood the character would have regeneration as well as the "slower" healing the body would be doing. I was also trying to build this as a progression power (leveled like Damage Control). Perhaps I'm being too complicated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hide View Post
Just wondering about this, wouldn't it be easier assessing this with psionic/psycho-kinetic Damage Resistance? You can apply some limitations and enhancements to attain regeneration and the quirks you seem to desire.
Can you detail what you mean here? Maybe throw me an example? I admit that the Limited Defenses limitation always gives me fits; I wish SJG had just created a large chart of Very Common-Rare Damage types based on a vanilla campaign to work from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
That's on the left column of page 75 of Psionic Powers.

If your approach is to JUST use Injury Tolerance (Damage Reduction) from Powers instead of the Basic Set versions of Injury Tolerance that this version also uses in levels 1-3, I like it! In that case it's just "I'm hardening myself all-around" rather than "just my vital organs".
I really hadn't considered that but will now! I am stating it as a "healing factor" that improves as opposed to a physical strengthening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
One thing I never noticed about that:
you’ll always get a minimum of 1 point of damage, except with crushing
This would only apply in the 4th/6th/7th levels when the rightmost "other" column is altered.

Is that intended to mean that we could actually round down fractions when you're applying sub-one wound multipliers for Penetrating Damage from Crushing Attack? I can't remember that being mentioned in Powers. It's kind of super-important!
Yes, minimum damage is 0 for cr, 1 for all other types. That's on B378.

--

Perhaps I should just detail the traits I'd like to REMOVE from each of the IT:

IT: Homogeneous - Immunity to Choke (Suffocate) B428, Immunity to Heart Attacks

IT: Diffuse - Immunity to Slams & Grapples, Immunity to Heart Attack, No Blood

I'm just inclined to swag it at -10% - 15% limited defense "hole" as per http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...6&postcount=11 on the attack types; and reduce IT:D by -5 ( No Blood ).

I'm also fairly curious if anyone has had good use with Damage Control or made any changes to it based on play.

RT.
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Old 02-08-2020, 06:54 AM   #6
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Injury Tolerance: (varies), JUST damage mitigation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahvin_T View Post
Yes, minimum damage is 0 for cr, 1 for all other types. That's on B378.
The minimum BASIC damage, but it seems like the minimum PENETRATING damage (only if there is any) is meant to be 1 HP, even if it's crushing, is my point. Obviously if DR ties/exceeds BD then there is no PD to apply wounding multipliers (ie divisors) to, so it wouldn't matter.

You quoted something form P52 that I hadn't noticed before also:
after subtracting DR from damage and applying wounding modifiers
Normally the order you apply multiplication/division does not matter, so order would not affect Homogenous/Unliving AFAIK...

Diffuse however doesn't use multipliers, it just has hard caps... so if the caps apply FIRST, that's actually super-important.

Having even the first (half) IT:DR would mean reducing all attacks (except impaling/piercing: they're already there) from 2 HP to 1 HP of injury.

You would need the cosmic version to reduce impaling/piercing from 1 HP to 0 HP (you need to reduce it below 1, 0.5 is below) and the cosmic version of 1/3 damage to do this for the other types.

Area Effect / Cone / Explosion of course remain the bane of Diffuse, but taking 1/2 or 1/3 damage would still help there.
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Old 02-08-2020, 08:01 AM   #7
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Injury Tolerance: (varies), JUST damage mitigation

Another way to represent extreme levels of durability is to purchase high levels of Enhanced Dodge instead of Diffuse (the 'dodge' could be creating holes within the body that allow damage to pass through without harming the character). Since Diffuse is a base 100 CP, that would easily pay for Enhanced Dodge 6, giving a DX 12 and HT 12 character with Combat Reflexes a dodge of 16 (for a total cost of 154 CP after a power modifier), which would protect them from 98% of attacks.
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Old 02-08-2020, 08:29 AM   #8
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Injury Tolerance: (varies), JUST damage mitigation

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
which would protect them from 98% of attacks
What % of attacks are surprise attacks though?

Or attacks that penalize defences like when you're in a low posture / feinted / fatigued / deceptived
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Old 02-08-2020, 09:01 AM   #9
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Injury Tolerance: (varies), JUST damage mitigation

Since individuals with Combat Reflexes are never considered to suffer Total Surprise, it depends on their Partial Surprise roll. If they fail, they suffer mental stun, receive a -4 on their active defenses, and still defend at a 75%. They will likely recover after a turn though. As for the rest, no defense is perfect. After all, I can have a villain with IQ 12, Will 20, Vampirism 4, and the following ability to deal with pesky heroes:

Affliction (Will; Based on Will, +20%; Malediction 3, +200%; Negated Advantages, Diffuse, Homogenous, Insubstantiality, No Brains, No Blood, No Neck, No Vitals, Unliving, +260%; No Signature, +20%; Psionic, -10%; Selectivity, +10%) [60]

While it does not effect all forms of protection, the villain can make heroes more vulnerable to the firearms of their minions. In addition, the entire assembly only costs 160 CP, so it is a really easy design for low level and mid level villains.
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Old 02-08-2020, 09:26 AM   #10
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Injury Tolerance: (varies), JUST damage mitigation

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
individuals with Combat Reflexes are never considered to suffer Total Surprise
Ah, never much realized the import of B43's "You never “freeze” in a surprise situation" but B393 does elaborate well.

I wonder how we could represent the "Adventurers, guards, etc. rarely sufer total surprise unless they are actually asleep." idea there.

I would imagine adventurers/guards often do have combat reflexes, so would that be like Combat Reflexes (Accessibility: Only While Awake -20%) ? On the other hand, "Combat Only -20%" should probably be worth more, since even if someone begins combat against you, you probably wouldn't be considered in the combat yourself until you woke up?

Given that even "Total Surprise" state of "mental stun" allows defences, there must be a state (not even surprised?) of non-responsiveness while still sleeping that precedes total surprise. Being asleep must be "worse than stunned" in a sense. You're still taking Do Nothing maneuvers, but probably can't defend at all until you are alert enough to danger to upgrade to at least 'total surprise' (or skip it to 'partial surprise with Combat Reflexes) to allow defences?

Plus even when not suffering the 'stun' effect of Total/Partial surprise (must "Do Nothing") there is also the 'surprise attack' concept of stuff one is unaware of, such as attacks from behind when you fail a hearing roll.

I guess you could still get that hearing roll while asleep (eyes closed you're basically as blind to attacks in all directions as you would be to those from behind?) but maybe with a penalty since you're only partially conscious?

Last edited by Plane; 02-08-2020 at 09:30 AM.
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