Do Machine creatures get a resistance roll against Stop Power?

[William]

An area-effect spell that shuts down all power in a couple of nearby hexes seems like an excellent anti-group spell if one's opponents are machine creatures of an affected tech level. A minute's long enough to Put the Boot In quite a few times.

Area Body Control spells are resisted by HT by any targets in the area, and this seems to be an equivalent for machines. Would it be more reasonable to say that creatures with the Machine template get HT to resist this spell when cast on an area they're in? Or, since any machine could theoretically be statted up as a Machine-template creature, is it deliberately in the spirit of the spell that it functions on an area without resistance? Or, rule-of-drama option, whether something gets an HT roll is dependent on whether it's reasonably autonomous as a foe in the GM's opinion?

[Nereidalbel]

Sentient beings should get a resistance roll, as GURPS doesn't like no-save death effects. As far as mindless killbots go? Nah, basic targeting systems and friend/foe detection don't really count as "sentient."

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Sentient beings should get a resistance roll, as GURPS doesn't like no-save death effects. As far as mindless killbots go? Nah, basic targeting systems and friend/foe detection don't really count as "sentient."

It could be that not getting a roll is part of the bad stuff that taking the Electrical disadvantage means:

Originally Posted by Electrical

Your body contains unshielded electronics, or relies on electrical power for its vital energy. This makes you susceptible to attacks that only affect electrical systems, such as spells, advantages, and ultra-tech weapons that drain power or produce “surge” effects, and the electromagnetic pulse from a nuclear blast.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

It could be that not getting a roll is part of the bad stuff that taking the Electrical disadvantage means:

Susceptible presumably means that those attacks affect you, as compared to biological creatures, who aren't affected.

[William]

The point about no-save death effects (even "total paralysis" effects, which as pointed out is roughly the same in combat) is well taken, especially when I put myself in the shoes of someone playing a machine-template creature: I'd want a save. It pleases me that the question is clarified by moral exercise.

Still, area-effect save-or-total-paralysis is still probably a pretty good countermeasure -- and they have lasers and plasma rifles too, which should probably just conk out. (...I hope they don't have antimatter containment, or if they do, I hope it fails to safe deadlock! Probably the sort of failure mode which is very quickly rectified in the design process.)

[whswhs]

You seem to be assuming that beings with the Machine meta-trait would not otherwise get HT. This does not seem to be warranted by the RAW. See Damage to Objects, pp. B483-485, which talks about all sorts of inanimate pieces of equipment making HT rolls under a variety of circumstances: injury (breakage), lack of maintenance for complex devices, exposure to harsh environments. On p. 483 you will find simple guidelines that give Unliving objects HT 10, Homogenous and Diffuse ones HT 12, subject to modification. There are explicit provisions on p. 484 for knockdown and stunning effects on sentient machines.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by William

(...I hope they don't have antimatter containment, or if they do, I hope it fails to safe deadlock! Probably the sort of failure mode which is very quickly rectified in the design process.)

How do you safe-deadlock antimatter? It takes a constant flow of energy to prevent the antimatter from contacting the surrounding matter and exploding.

[William]

Originally Posted by whswhs

You seem to be assuming that beings with the Machine meta-trait would not otherwise get HT.

No, I'm well aware that objects, including machines, have HT. My question was whether a creature with the Machine template gets an HT roll to keep its power going if it is within the radius of an appropriately-targeted Stop Power spell. The spell does not explicitly provide for resistance by machines in the subject area, and in fact generally seems to assume that they will not get the opportunity.

My answer, based on "if I were playing a Machine character and someone cast a spell to completely paralyze me, would I want a save," is, "Yes." I'm not the GM though, and if mine wants to let me have the capability to shut down a squadron of Mechanoids with standard human energy reserves, I'm more than happy to take it.

[William]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

How do you safe-deadlock antimatter? It takes a constant flow of energy to prevent the antimatter from contacting the surrounding matter and exploding.

Darn good question. Fortunately, I don't think the foes in my campaign have antimatter-tech.

Were I an ultra-tech engineer trying to design such a system, I might make the container walls out of some material that, if power were shut down and antimatter started to escape, underwent a chemical (or other, as appropriate) reaction which, although consuming the material at some rate, would induce some level of shielding, and give the operator enough time to either restart power or get away from the antimatter.

For what it's worth, that's roughly the solution I recall from reading the Star Trek technical manuals many years ago: antimatter containment is assisted by a resonance effect in the physical container design, so that if power fails, the containment field will decay rather than vanish instantly. This would hopefully be long enough for some very low-tech sensors and explosives to blow the tanks away from the ship.

Interestingly, photon torpedos have the reverse problem. You want to subdivide a lot of antimatter into as much potential contact with matter as possible, and then drop the containment field rapidly, so that energy is released as instantly as possible.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

How do you safe-deadlock antimatter? It takes a constant flow of energy to prevent the antimatter from contacting the surrounding matter and exploding.

Cages were a popular bit of technobabble for a while when fullerenes first started showing up. You trapped your antiprotons inside the electron cloud of the cage (which repels it). As long as your antiprotons can't touch *protons* they won't annihilate, electrons are safe. This probably doesn't actually work for any real molecules, but maybe with exotic matter (cages with muons replacing the electrons, or dissolving your antimatter in neutronium) you could make it work.