Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction vs Rapid Fire

[CeeDub]

Salutations! Quick question: Is my understanding correct that if a character with Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction takes hits from a weapon with RoF > 1, he would take a minimum of 1 point of injury for each hit that penetrates Damage Resistance?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by CeeDub

Salutations! Quick question: Is my understanding correct that if a character with Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction takes hits from a weapon with RoF > 1, he would take a minimum of 1 point of injury for each hit that penetrates Damage Resistance?

Multiple hits from a rapid fire weapon are independent injuries. So yes, assuming it's not IT:DR that can round damage down to zero.

[Thamior]

Originally Posted by CeeDub

Salutations! Quick question: Is my understanding correct that if a character with Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction takes hits from a weapon with RoF > 1, he would take a minimum of 1 point of injury for each hit that penetrates Damage Resistance?

There is a cosmic +50% modifier that lets you ignore any injury less than 1 HP after IT:DR.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Thamior

There is a cosmic +50% modifier that lets you ignore any injury less than 1 HP after IT:DR.

P118-119 yep.

Given how that's so much more expensive on high levels it makes me wonder about just buying two versions of stacking ITDR and just layer it so the +50% version is on the bottom...

Example:

ITDR2 (cosmic +50%) [75]
ITDR2 (normal) [50]
total cost: [125]

ITDR4 normally costs 100 points so taking +50% on it would cost [150]

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Plane

P118-119 yep.

Given how that's so much more expensive on high levels it makes me wonder about just buying two versions of stacking ITDR and just layer it so the +50% version is on the bottom...

And the GM says 'no'. It's legitimately 50% more valuable, though there are several methods around the minimum damage 1 (e.g. DR 2 (hardened x6 +120%, absorption(healing) +80%) [30]).

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Anthony

there are several methods around the minimum damage 1 (e.g. DR 2 (hardened x6 +120%, absorption(healing) +80%) [30]).

Will still cause shock unless you have HPT, and I guess also deliver toxins and stuff.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Plane

Will still cause shock unless you have HPT, and I guess also deliver toxins and stuff.

IT(DR) with cosmic won't stop skin or blood agents either.

[munin]

Originally Posted by Anthony

… It's legitimately 50% more valuable, …

Is it, though? For supers especially, it can be a massive amount of points just to ignore a few points of injury. It almost always makes more sense to put those points into more levels of IT:DR, DR, or Regeneration (just in terms of point value).

Without IT:DR, rounding to zero any injury less than one would be, what, a Rules Exemption perk? 1 point to ignore things like damage rolls of 1 for small piercing attacks seems reasonably fair. The fact that IT:DR would then bring more injuries into that range -- well, it's an expensive advantage, a synergy also seems fair.

[Gnome]

I think there's a potential issue with any ability that takes you beyond "highly resistant to damage" to "effectively immune to damage."

In a modern setting, being effectively immune to firearms "should" cost maybe around 200 or so points (a rifle that does 7d can do at most 42 points of damage at a time, and 42 DR costs 210 points). This is not even taking into account potential armor divisors, eye shots, etc., so really you should be buying that DR with Forcefield and Hardened, which pushes the cost closer to 300. And if you want to be immune to rockets and grenades, it will cost even more.

There shouldn't be a much cheaper way to do this with IT:DR. So maybe +50% is a bit much, but a perk seems a bit cheap.
Perhaps +25% would be a fair cost?

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Gnome

I think there's a potential issue with any ability that takes you beyond "highly resistant to damage" to "effectively immune to damage."

In a modern setting, being effectively immune to firearms "should" cost maybe around 200 or so points

Let's look at other damage mitigation you could do with 200 points.

On the active defense front you could buy either: Dodge +12 [180] (usually giving you an 18ish base dodge). Move +10 [200] (16ish base dodge).

You could also get +20 HP [40] and Regeneration [150] (+30 HP per second since it scales up with HP).

You could get Insubstantial [80] and be immune to conventional attacks. You have 120 points to play with for abilities that affect the substantial.

... and the list goes on. DR doesn't scale well for Supers or high TL. It's great for TL5 and below, but rather expensive where the good firearms come into play.

<snip>

There shouldn't be a much cheaper way to do this with IT:DR. So maybe +50% is a bit much, but a perk seems a bit cheap.
Perhaps +25% would be a fair cost?

The problem with percentage costs are the above flat rate solutions. Regeneration is usually cheaper for Superman level IT:DR. DR w/Absorption is usually a better solution at lower costs even if you only allow absorbed points to be spent on the character's turn as a free action.