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Old 04-04-2021, 12:15 PM   #1
Shostak
 
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Default More HTH Questions: Fencers

The rules for HTH beg all sorts of questions, as can be seen in recent (and much older) threads on the topic. Here's another based on a situation I had a year or so ago in which I ruled against a Fencer (much to the displeasure of the player) that spins off mention of Fencers in this post in the thread about adjudicating initiation of HTH.

How does HTH affect a Fencer's abilities? The description of Fencer makes specific mention of HTH in only one place: under the section dealing with how the talent confers +1 damage to all fencing weapons and where it exempts only the main-gauche when used in HTH situations. Are we then to assume that in HTH a normal dagger gets the +1 damage bonus, that attacks against a Fencer with a knife in hand are made at -1DX, and that the fencer may make a shrewd thrust for extra damage ? Or do we take what I see as the common-sense approach that nothing about Fencer applies in HTH situations, which implies that the single mention of an HTH limitation on Fencer is simply a misleading passage?
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Old 04-04-2021, 12:23 PM   #2
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Default Re: More HTH Questions: Fencers

I think all Fencer abilities don't work in HTH.

I think the only reason Fencer mentions main-gauche doesn't get a damage bonus in HTH, is because main-gauche is the only fencing weapon that's usable at all in HTH.

I think a dagger never gets any advantages from Fencer, because it is not one of the weapons that Fencer applies to.
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Old 04-04-2021, 12:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: More HTH Questions: Fencers

The 3 oz dagger is not listed as one of the three fencing weapons so none of the Fencer bonuses applies. However taking Fencer requires Sword which includes Knife so you have at least basic use of the weapon.
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Old 04-04-2021, 01:06 PM   #4
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: More HTH Questions: Fencers

I rule the Fencing talent doesn't convey any benefits in HTH.
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Old 04-04-2021, 01:47 PM   #5
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Default Re: More HTH Questions: Fencers

Seems everyone is in agreement here. I'm almost tempted to argue the other side, just because what else would we do?
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Old 04-04-2021, 09:33 PM   #6
Shostak
 
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Default Re: More HTH Questions: Fencers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
I think a dagger never gets any advantages from Fencer, because it is not one of the weapons that Fencer applies to.
Gosh, I should have known that the standard dagger isn't included in the Fencer talent. That distinction begs the question, though: Is it the larger hilt that lets a Fencer strike with parrying dagger for more damage than they would with a standard dagger?
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Old 04-04-2021, 10:52 PM   #7
Jeff Lord
 
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Default Re: More HTH Questions: Fencers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
Gosh, I should have known that the standard dagger isn't included in the Fencer talent. That distinction begs the question, though: Is it the larger hilt that lets a Fencer strike with parrying dagger for more damage than they would with a standard dagger?
I would think that it was probably more a reflection of time spent training with the main-gauche. I don't think that the size of the hilt would impact damage much at all.
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Old 04-05-2021, 02:11 AM   #8
Skarg
 
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Default Re: More HTH Questions: Fencers

It's just specialized training that says it's limited to only those weapons. Someone with Dagger Expertise would get +1 with a dagger.

(And a GM might decide that in some culture in their campaign, what weapons get specialized in by people learning Fencer or some other variant talent might be a bit different. I was just offering an answer about RAW.)
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Old 04-05-2021, 05:44 AM   #9
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Default Re: More HTH Questions: Fencers

The fencing stance has hand forwards because you have the hand protection.

Knife fighting is all about sudden stabs forwards and hence is much better suited to grappling fighting. No reason why you couldn't use knife fighting techniques (through dagger mastery) with the Main Gauche, but you wouldn't get the defensive bonuses at the same time.
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Old 04-05-2021, 09:48 AM   #10
Shostak
 
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Default Re: More HTH Questions: Fencers

Okay, so we appear to agree that, offensively speaking, parrying (main-gauche) and standard daggers are essentially the same. If they are, why then should a Fencer not get the offensive bonus with a standard dagger (not in HTH!)?
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