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Old 09-29-2018, 05:58 PM   #1
TippetsTX
 
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Default Learning new talents

I can't find anything like the following rules in the revised ITL. Why was it removed?

As a character gains experience, he may add IQ points, allowing him to learn new abilities. However, a figure cannot just increase his IQ and suddenly gain a new ability "out of the blue" he must have studied it. At any time, a figure may be studying any three talents or languages. When he increases his IQ to the point where he can add a new talent or language, he may take any one of those that he has been studying (assuming, of course, that he also meets any DX or ability prerequisites for that talent). He may then start to study a new ability. A figure may choose to study anything he/she likes. However, it would be foolish for an IQ 8 figure to begin to study three IQ 13 talents, since he could not take any of them until he reached IQ 13. It is not necessary to learn new talents or languages in the order in which you begin to study them. If a figure, once having started to study a talent or language, wishes to abandon that study, he or she may do so, but there is a penalty: loss of half the experience points he/she has at the moment the study of that ability is abandoned, or 1,000 EP, whichever is higher. It is possible for a character to have a negative amount of experience points, but this does not cause loss of attributes or abilities it just means the character must work up to zero before accumulating a positive total again.
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Old 09-29-2018, 06:12 PM   #2
platimus
 
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Default Re: Learning new talents

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Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
I can't find anything like the following rules in the revised ITL. Why was it removed?

As a character gains experience, he may add IQ points, allowing him to learn new abilities. However, a figure cannot just increase his IQ and suddenly gain a new ability "out of the blue" he must have studied it. At any time, a figure may be studying any three talents or languages. When he increases his IQ to the point where he can add a new talent or language, he may take any one of those that he has been studying (assuming, of course, that he also meets any DX or ability prerequisites for that talent). He may then start to study a new ability. A figure may choose to study anything he/she likes. However, it would be foolish for an IQ 8 figure to begin to study three IQ 13 talents, since he could not take any of them until he reached IQ 13. It is not necessary to learn new talents or languages in the order in which you begin to study them. If a figure, once having started to study a talent or language, wishes to abandon that study, he or she may do so, but there is a penalty: loss of half the experience points he/she has at the moment the study of that ability is abandoned, or 1,000 EP, whichever is higher. It is possible for a character to have a negative amount of experience points, but this does not cause loss of attributes or abilities it just means the character must work up to zero before accumulating a positive total again.
Because it has been replaced with the new XP buy system.
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Old 09-29-2018, 06:21 PM   #3
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Default Re: Learning new talents

But even w/ XP buy, why wouldn't there be an expectation of having to study and train in order to aquire new talents? XP may be the new currency, but that doesn't address the time required to gain a new skill.
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Old 09-29-2018, 06:22 PM   #4
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Default Re: Learning new talents

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But even w/ XP buy, why wouldn't there be an expectation of having to study and train in order to aquire new talents? XP may be the new currency, but that doesn't address the time required to gain a new skill.
The time you spent acquiring that XP is considered to be the time you spent learning.
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Old 09-29-2018, 06:56 PM   #5
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The time you spent acquiring that XP is considered to be the time you spent learning.
Which doesn't make much sense unless you say what you're studying and apply the XP towards, and unless you have access to a source of the learning at that time.
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Old 09-29-2018, 07:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: Learning new talents

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The time you spent acquiring that XP is considered to be the time you spent learning.
Sorry, but that makes no sense. XP is earned from time spent adventuring not training.The old rules required a player to make choices about a character's goals. As the original text states, talents cannot be acquired "out of the blue". I think this needs to be put back into the revised rules.
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Old 09-29-2018, 07:16 PM   #7
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Default Re: Learning new talents

Guys, it makes complete sense to me and lots of people who replied when Steve asked the question (in the Experience thread, I think). Skarg, I know you were in that thread. Maybe you weren't disagreeable enough! LOL

If you want to make players say what they are studying before they earn the XP to buy it, Just Do It. How elaborate does it need to be?
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Old 09-29-2018, 07:58 PM   #8
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Default Re: Learning new talents

I guess for me, it's just one more example of the revision removing a rule that made TFT unique. When we played back in the day, it was details like this that made the campaign and characters come alive for me. And because of that, we had no desire to go back to AD&D (or move to 2nd edition) once we discovered TFT.
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Old 09-29-2018, 10:50 PM   #9
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Learning new talents

The old rule for studying talents was problematic in the details, but the baby got deleted with the bathwater. And so did its twin, the five paragraphs on what it takes to learn a spell in terms of time and books or teachers.

I agree with TippetsTX that the replacement makes little sense and is worse than what it replaced, except from the perspective of players who don't care and would probably ignore or overlook such rules in the first place.

How elaborate does it need to be? Well if you don't care and think "just handwave it" makes complete sense, then for you it doesn't need anything.

For me, it needs some sort of mention that you need a book or teacher to learn spells and many talents, or else people will be adding random spells and talents based on the XP they got for working as a group to solve a puzzle and for making everyone in the party laugh, and referring to the rule that says they were clearly studying the Magic Rainstorm spell they only this moment chose to spend XP on, even though they've never met anyone who knows that spell and they have no access to such a book.

For me, I'd prefer it still said something useful about studying time. I rather liked the old rules. They were great too in that they told me how long an NPC or not-currently-in-play PC would tend to take to study spells.

I think all that is important because it can add a lot to a campaign to have the GM consider where spells are known (or in books owned) by whom, and to have it be part of play that to learn a spell you need to find someone who knows it or has the book, and then you need to get them to teach you or let you study the book, and take time to do that. I find that really interesting.

Moreover, they were part of a ruleset that seemed to be written from the idea that the world was meant to be consistent and mechanical rather than uninterested and hand-waved. Even if many people didn't use them, they suggested that the world made sense and things happened in logical ways with logical limits based on the characters stats, situations, and use of time.
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Old 09-30-2018, 08:53 AM   #10
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Default Re: Learning new talents

The new rules are very clear on this point; they explicitly state that do not have any obligations other than expending earned XP to learn new talents. This can be rationalized as being a simplifying abstraction (like your job pay, or taxes or other things that go on under the water line of active play at the table). I think it is a good idea; I like organized campaign play centered on things like creating magic items or building fortresses or whatever, but I've never been very interested in rules governing study/training. If you like that sort of thing I'd suggest you draw up some house rules.
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