Fanaticism and Sense of Duty

[Anders]

What would be the difference between Fanaticism (U.S.A) and Sense of Duty (U.S.A.)? What would a character like Captain America in the movie CA: The Winter Soldier have?

No discussion of real-world politics, obviously.

[TGLS]

As written, SoD (US) would be a sense of duty that applies to every single American. Fanaticism (US) would simply be a very extreme patriot. Individual Americans aren't very important to the Fanatic, but very much so to the Sense of Duty.

[ericthered]

reading the advantages, fanaticism is ideological, while sense of duty is personal. The disad Sense of duty specifically mentions you feel that way towards a group of people. Sense of Duty (America) is more properly written Sense of Duty (Americans). Fanaticism mention nations, but also organizations, philosophies, and religions. Fanaticism (America) is for someone who believes in the national organization, government, constitution, ect, is something worth dying for.

[Alden Loveshade]

I think it's a very good question.

Originally Posted by TGLS

As written, SoD (US) would be a sense of duty that applies to every single American. Fanaticism (US) would simply be a very extreme patriot. Individual Americans aren't very important to the Fanatic, but very much so to the Sense of Duty.

This would seem to make sense, but there may be an issue with the "every single American" interpretation.

SoD has

Large Group (e.g., a nation or religion, or everyone you know personally): -10 points.

Assume the PC lives in the U.S.A. SoD to everyone I know personally (all of whom are Americans) is quite a bit smaller than a SoD to the U.S.A. nation (if interpreted as all individual Americans).

- - - - -

On the difference between Sense of Duty and Fanaticism, Fanaticism has

If the object of your Fanaticism demands obedience to a code of behavior or loyalty to a leader, you oblige willingly and unquestioningly.

An example of a distinction might be this.

Imagine a PC is in the U.S.A. military in the middle of the jungle under a commander who's gone wacko. There's a group of American "deserters" who left the wacko commander and are on the edge of starving.

The SoD PC would want to sneak food to the deserters. The Fanatic PC would be more likely to shoot them.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade

Assume the PC lives in the U.S.A. SoD to everyone I know personally (all of whom are Americans) is quite a bit smaller than a SoD to the U.S.A. nation (if interpreted as all individual Americans).

I live in the USA, and not everyone I know personally is an american. Exclusions include foreign students, Immigrants (depending on how you read if they are "american") , Coworkers who live overseas, and gaming acquaintances who live overseas.

The national version is still more appropriate in international settings, I agree.

[Alden Loveshade]

Originally Posted by ericthered

I live in the USA, and not everyone I know personally is an american. Exclusions include foreign students, Immigrants (depending on how you read if they are "american") , Coworkers who live overseas, and gaming acquaintances who live overseas.

The national version is still more appropriate in international settings, I agree.

Good points. Location can make a huge difference.

Where I used to live (suburb of Los Angeles), about half the business signs were in a language other than English. And I tutored international English-as-a-second-language students.

Now that I live in the middle of nowhere in rural Texas, a "foreigner" is someone from California or New York (OK, I'm exaggerating--a little).

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade

SoD to everyone I know personally (all of whom are Americans) is quite a bit smaller than a SoD to the U.S.A. nation (if interpreted as all individual Americans).

You're also unlikely to run into most of those Americans, but highly likely to run into those you know personally. It evens out.

It's a Sense of Duty -- something the character personally feels, not something you calculated to pretend to for maximum point value for minimum commitment.

[David Johnston2]

The thing about Fanaticism is that, you have to be unreasonable. For example someone who feels a Sense of Duty toward his nation can still do things like arresting a military officer who was committing war crimes in its service. But a Fanatic patriot? It's "my country right or wrong" and he'll most likely be supporting the war criminal. Or murdering him as part of the cover-up. Which ever best serves the cause.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Anders

What would a character like Captain America in the movie CA: The Winter Soldier have?

He would have Sense of Duty and it would more likely be "All Humans" than just his country. In one movie he's in another country and he does his best to make sure not a single person dies even though he doesn't know them and they definitely aren't americans.

[Anders]

What about someone who says "my country, right or wrong..."

Sense of Duty or Fanaticism?