Rituals Wanted!

[Gef]

Originally Posted by Langy

In that case, you'd probably need Sense Mind, possibly also with Sense Matter or Sense Undead.

Why? In MH, under the description of vampires, it's clear that Path of Undead substitutes for both Body and Mind. So if you make the body temporarily undead, just a little spark of undeath insufficient for animation, you should be able to probe its mind.

Without creating undead, you're analyzing the static information contained in memory RNA before it deteriorates. Why would Mind be involved? If Path of Undead also covers the merely dead, then it should be all you need. Otherwise, if a corpse is matter for the purpose of a ritual, then I'd expect Path of Matter to be sufficient, for if it is not, it means that the dead have Minds, a major implication for any campaign that employs RPM. Again, I could easily "fill in the blanks" in this system for a given campaign, but the challenge here is to nominate rituals to serve as a reference for any campaign. Questions whose answers are obvious to two parties are not always the same for both parties. If it were my call, I'd say that the path of "Undead" covers the merely dead as well, and I'd rule that animating a zombie is Lesser Transform Undead, and that duplicating the curse of vampires is Greater Transform Undead, and that Undead can't be created, but you could create merely dead flesh and then transform it into an Undead monster. But alas, that's not my call, hence the question.

GEF

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Gef

Why? In MH, under the description of vampires, it's clear that Path of Undead substitutes for both Body and Mind. So if you make the body temporarily undead, just a little spark of undeath insufficient for animation, you should be able to probe its mind.

Without creating undead, you're analyzing the static information contained in memory RNA before it deteriorates. Why would Mind be involved? If Path of Undead also covers the merely dead, then it should be all you need. Otherwise, if a corpse is matter for the purpose of a ritual, then I'd expect Path of Matter to be sufficient, for if it is not, it means that the dead have Minds, a major implication for any campaign that employs RPM. Again, I could easily "fill in the blanks" in this system for a given campaign, but the challenge here is to nominate rituals to serve as a reference for any campaign. Questions whose answers are obvious to two parties are not always the same for both parties. If it were my call, I'd say that the path of "Undead" covers the merely dead as well, and I'd rule that animating a zombie is Lesser Transform Undead, and that duplicating the curse of vampires is Greater Transform Undead, and that Undead can't be created, but you could create merely dead flesh and then transform it into an Undead monster. But alas, that's not my call, hence the question.

GEF

Going by this argument, why wouldn't Path of Body also include Path of Mind? Why couldn't I use Path of Body to analyze memory RNA/etc?

Answer: Because you're trying to analyze someone's mind, which is Path of Mind. Analyzing memories is Path of Mind if it's alive, Path of Undead if it's undead. You're right that you'd need to make it undead in order to analyze its mind with Path of Undead, though. I certainly wouldn't allow you to use Path of Matter to analyze something's memories, though - at least, not solely. It might string multiple paths together.

[Randyman]

Originally Posted by Langy

Going by this argument, why wouldn't Path of Body also include Path of Mind? Why couldn't I use Path of Body to analyze memory RNA/etc?

Answer: Because you're trying to analyze someone's mind, which is Path of Mind. Analyzing memories is Path of Mind if it's alive, Path of Undead if it's undead. You're right that you'd need to make it undead in order to analyze its mind with Path of Undead, though. I certainly wouldn't allow you to use Path of Matter to analyze something's memories, though - at least, not solely. It might string multiple paths together.

Maybe require more energy to use Path of Matter/Body for this purpose, since the working is much more "detailed". Reward player creativity without breaking the game.

[Steven Marsh]

Originally Posted by Langy

I'd say creating a sword out of nothing should be more energy expensive, probably due to being a greater effect.

Actually, unless this was rule-tweaked after publication (or unless there's a subtlety here I'm missing), conjuration out of thin air is easier than transformation in this system. (It was even the basis of a Murphy's Rules I did for Pyramid #3/31: Monster Hunters, which was vetted by PK himself.)

The rationale (as I understand it) is that transformation is often more useful from a game standpoint; turning my archfoe into a toad or transforming the steel door preventing my escape into sand is a lot more game-disruptive than simply making a toad out of nothingness or creating a pile of sand.

[Gef]

I'm not sure it quite rates as a Murphy, for it is magic, although this is another gaming mechanic with significant implications for cosmology in a campaign that uses the RPM system. I just wanted to be sure I understood it before submitting rituals. Thank you. -GEF

[Lamech]

Originally Posted by Gef

Fair enough. Is creation always a greater effect, and transform always lesser? Would a more complex device be cheaper to create out of nothing than from raw maeterials?

Basically because transformation is more useful than anything else, its the equivalent of all of them except sense in one path. If I need to get rid of a door, and make a sword? Transform. Make myself stronger? Transform muscle into stronger muscle. Have a poison in my body, a bunch of wounds, and need laser eyes? Transform my injured poisoned body into a healthy one with laser eyes.


If you want a metaphysical reason its more expensive? Okay, I need to take something, add energy to cancel out whatever it normally is, and then add energy to make it do what I want it to do. Much more costly than simply destroying something, or making something.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Gef

I'm not sure it quite rates as a Murphy, for it is magic, although this is another gaming mechanic with significant implications for cosmology in a campaign that uses the RPM system. I just wanted to be sure I understood it before submitting rituals. Thank you. -GEF

Definitely not a Murphy.
A Murphy would be more like its easier to create an elephant then a fork.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Gef

Is creation always a greater effect, and transform always lesser?

No, there are Lesser Create Matter effects and Greater Create Matter ones, just as there are Lesser Transform Matter effects and Greater Transform Matter ones. Transformations are often a way to take care of two problems at once, however (as Lamech correctly notes) and are far more potentially abusable ("I transform that dragon into a mouse!"), hence their increased cost.

Do note, however, that any attempt to Create anything other than simple raw materials requires you to make a crafting roll to get it right. If you try to Create a sword, you have to succeed at an Armoury (Melee Weapons) roll to do it right, at default if necessary. RPM will go into more detail on Transform, but briefly, whether the GM requires the same for Transform depends on how close of a transformation you're making; turning "air into a sword" would require a roll since that's basically creation ex nihilo, but turning a steel bar into a sword might be close enough for the GM to waive it.

[PK]

By the way, if anyone's concerned about an interpretation or about "getting it wrong," and that's holding you up from submitting a ritual, some advice:

Don't sweat it. Just do your best and send the ritual in.

If your build turns out to be a bit off because RPM clarified something from MH1, no big deal -- if I like your ritual, I'll just tweak it to bring it back inline! As long as the ritual is mostly correct, what matters is whether I think it's cool and nifty. :)

Also, note that you can often use a few different Paths to achieve the same ritual, so go with what seems best to you. For example, you can levitate yourself with Greater Create Energy (generating kinetic energy to lift yourself) or Greater Control Body (moving your body) -- so either version of the ritual would be valid.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Also, note that you can often use a few different Paths to achieve the same ritual, so go with what seems best to you. For example, you can levitate yourself with Greater Create Energy (generating kinetic energy to lift yourself) or Greater Control Body (moving your body) -- so either version of the ritual would be valid.

I hope that this makes it into the book, at least as a way to show that there isn't necessarily a single path to doing something. Hold Zombie could be Control Undead (you mess with it's movement and/or initiative) or Create Energy (you exert force on the zombie). That is without adding the option that it's really roots that have burst from the earth and bind it (Create Body). All 3 end up as Binding, ST X, but the route is quite different.