08-21-2021, 08:15 AM | #21 | ||||
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: [Powers / Psionics] Help with Uncontrollable
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(I think in his case the will roll is to shut his eyes?) He probably has some kind of Blind / Not Blind where "Not Blind" is an alternative ability to his attack, which is how he switches it off... That or "I can shut my eyes to prevent attacking people" is a free benefit of Uncontrollable "Gaze" attacks? Basically "it has to get through my eyelids" would prevent it from working since your power can't harm yourself... To stop your hand-blasts from attacking people should requiring grappling it with your other hand though. Last edited by Plane; 08-21-2021 at 08:32 AM. |
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08-21-2021, 11:25 AM | #22 | |
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Re: [Powers / Psionics] Help with Uncontrollable
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That being the case, and the character presumably not having additional independent maneuvers, the Uncontrolled Power or Advantage must be making use of the only source of Maneuvers available to it, those of the character that the Uncontrolled Power or Uncontrolled Advantage belongs to. If Uncontrollable is using the two Maneuvers per turn that every character gets, then the player doesn't have them available for his use and choice. Note that I did allow an exception if the character has additional independent Maneuvers available. In that case, the player gets to use them and the GM only uses the two everyman Maneuvers, but not every character has extra independent Maneuvers. Leaving Free Actions as still available to the character. Granted Free Actions are a bit more of a stretch. I could easily see a character using speech as a Free Action to warn his comrades (and maybe even his enemies) that he’s no longer able to control himself, but I don’t think it’s in the spirit of Uncontrolled for the character to be able to counter Uncontrollable by his Free Actions, other than the Will roll provided for in the Limitation so the player should probably run proposed Free Actions past the GM for approval until a Will roll is made. Which isn't quite the GM taking over the entire character, but it does seem like it comes pretty close. I don’t think that the rules support giving Uncontrollable its own maneuvers. All that said, it’s your game and you can interpret or change the rules as you see fit. Last edited by Curmudgeon; 08-21-2021 at 12:22 PM. Reason: added provision about Will roll as a Free Action |
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08-21-2021, 11:42 AM | #23 | |||
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New York City
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Re: [Powers / Psionics] Help with Uncontrollable
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Uncontrollable says the GM controls the power not the character, that means the player must be able to have meaningful control of character in other regards. Otherwise they'd just say GM takes control of the character. |
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08-21-2021, 12:12 PM | #24 | |
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Re: [Powers / Psionics] Help with Uncontrollable
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Yes, while the Uncontrolled Power is in use, the character is effectively a NPC under the GM's control (again assuming that the character has only the two everyman Maneuvers per turn). That's rather the point of the Uncontrollable Limitation, which is a limitation on the Power. Still, the player does always have the ability to make a Will roll as a Free Action to bring the Power back under his control, and with it control of the character. |
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08-21-2021, 05:25 PM | #25 | |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: [Powers / Psionics] Help with Uncontrollable
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If the concept did call for using up the character's actions, I'd probably start by trying a build with Backlash that inflicts Berserk, or some other appropriate Disad, like Obsession, Fanaticism, etc, that details what the character is supposed to be doing while they're out of control. I agree with Prince Charon that the classic poltergeist is the conceptual model for Uncontrollable. The character remains active and aware, and can still do things while the ability is wreaking its havoc. -- * Merely "effectively", because if I just said "it has a mind of its own", someone will inevitably ask if you can (frex) Mind Control or Sleep the uncontrolled entity separately from the character. I wouldn't make them that separate, which means being able to put the rogue ability down if you put the main character down. So by default it's not quite a Compartmentalized Mind (X ability only, controlled by GM) or sort-of Possession or Ally. |
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08-21-2021, 06:52 PM | #26 |
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Re: [Powers / Psionics] Help with Uncontrollable
Anyone feel like PMing Kromm to ask for an official ruling?
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08-21-2021, 07:58 PM | #27 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
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Re: [Powers / Psionics] Help with Uncontrollable
He's on vacation right now and we need to not bother him so he can get some much needed rest.
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08-21-2021, 08:13 PM | #28 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: [Powers / Psionics] Help with Uncontrollable
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RPing a Berserk char still gives you some control over what they do, but limits the maneuver choice. B124 for example forces you to take All-Out Attack, but it's player's option which foe you attack if BOTH are in range, and whether you take a Strong/Determined/Double option. This also applies to someone suffering from Stun: you still control the character but are forced to take a "Do Nothing" maneuver. So about the only thing you can opt to do is an active defense (at -4) but you still get that choice. Being forced to take Attack or Ready maneuvers based on the demands of an Uncontrollable ability would be far less limiting since you can still take a Step of your own volition (not possible with Do Nothing) and your active defenses are unpenalized. Like Berserk you also get a roll to snap out of a "my subsconscious is causing me to activate my uncontrollable ability" state, except it's Will instead of Self Control. Compendium 1 (3e) also talked about Uncontrollable in a couple places: pg 47 (Jumper) "will use his power involuntarily whenever he is in extreme stress"Sorta sounds like you're still using it, just subconsciously. Horror 62 also talks about applying "Uncontrollable" to Alternate Form. Shapeshifting takes a baseline 10 seconds to accomplish: so if Uncontrollable (and be extension Uncontrollable Trigger) actually gave "free maneuvers for ability use" then if the full moon starts turning me into a werewolf I can just go for a full sprint, cast spells while I transform, fire guns as my back erupts in fur against my will, etc... OTOH if we view that as "you need to take the Readies you would normally take if transforming voluntarily" that much better suits our concept of turning into a werewolf: it's almost like being stunned (except you get 1 step per second and no -4 to defenses, and can retreat) while the ability activates itself. It's not going to be a forever-stun because you'd regain control of your maneuvers once you passed one of your will rolls. Also even if you didn't: sometimes the power will just remove the source of the stress. If TK activates in fear because someones' kidnapping you and the TK knocks out the kidnapper then the source of the stress is gone. There should probably be some kind of bonus to the will rolls to regain control once sources of stress are removed. Last edited by Plane; 08-21-2021 at 08:19 PM. |
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08-21-2021, 08:32 PM | #29 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: [Powers / Psionics] Help with Uncontrollable
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08-21-2021, 09:17 PM | #30 | ||
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New York City
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Re: [Powers / Psionics] Help with Uncontrollable
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What you said pretty much mirrors my base opinion & what Christopher Rice said. Quote:
However, I can also see the merit of people saying "your power is powerful & now you get 'free' mental attacks for no points". |
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