[Powers / Psionics] Help with Uncontrollable

[Tinman]

I'm GMing a new psionics campaign. I'm trying to figure out how Uncontrollable (B.116) works with a character.

If a character has the incontrollable limitation on it's power & is not in control of it at the time, are they restricted to concentrate maneuvers or can they act as they wish & the power essentially acts as a compartmentalized mind?

Example:
The character is trying to run away from 3 attackers (a full move) but the power (the GM) decides it's going to attack one of them (a concentrate).

Can the character run or is it restricted to only a step?

If one is not in control of the power, then it's not like they are concentrating to use & target the power. Right?

Also, does anyone's opinion of the above change if the power is Uncontrollable & Unconscious (B.115)?
Thanks for any help.

[Not another shrubbery]

Well, the text in Basic doesn't seem to directly help but the idea that your conscious mind is no longer controlling an ability sure implies that the "intelligence" that commandeers it (as elaborated on in Powers) is fully in control of it. It would seem a bit strange that an Uncontrollable Advantage that was Off but suddenly manifests due to stress would require a maneuver on the owner's part.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Tinman

If a character has the incontrollable limitation on it's power & is not in control of it at the time, are they restricted to concentrate maneuvers or can they act as they wish & the power essentially acts as a compartmentalized mind?

It feels like we ought to charge for it if only to prevent weird exploits like someone taking Uncontrollable to get free activation prep combined with other investments that lengthen prep like Takes Extra Time / Requires Preparation.

That said, if we did force someone to buy Compartmentalized Mind to pay for those concentrates, in addition to the usual discounts you get when CM can only be used for a single power/ability, if you couldn't voluntarily use the CM for controlled uses of your ability then it also seems fair to allow them to take Unconscious Only as a discount on Comparmentalized Mind.

Basically meaning that it's not you who uses the CM but your uncontrollable unconscious.

The +10% to make CM switchable and -10% for uncontrollable (prereq for unconscious only) would cancel out.

I guess if it's a Power then it could be a small nuisance to turn on since then that's extra "simultaneous uses" penalties.

Conceptually you could as a house rule say that the will roll you make to shut off your Uncontrollable power and the will roll you make to shut off your Compartmentalized Mind are one and the same.

You would still need to lose a Ready as the Compartmentalized Mind flips itself on, of course (unless you took reduced time) but then once you do that, it will cover the maneuver demands of whatever ability you designed it to complement.

If someone does take CM then I like the idea of Uncontrollable forcing them to take certain maneuvers as their unconscious mind dominates their conscious one. It helps represent the whole "my powers take over and I go into a trance" type thing.

[Christopher R. Rice]

I've always treated it going haywire as its own thing.

[Tinman]

Originally Posted by Plane

.

I think you missed the point of my question.
The player dosn't want compartmentalized mind. The character just wants to run away from danger. However, he loses control over the power.
Is the character forced to take a concentrate maneuver instead of the preferred move maneuver?

It feels like we ought to charge for it if only to prevent weird exploits like someone taking Uncontrollable to get free activation prep combined with other investments that lengthen prep like Takes Extra Time / Requires Preparation.

Or the GM could just say no to those exploits as not legitimate limitations.
I've done that to players sometimes.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

I've always treated it going haywire as its own thing.

Same. It would make no sense (IMHO) for the character to be paralysed by their power going uncontrollable unless there were a separate limitation or disadvantage that caused it. This is consistent with stories of poltergeist phenomena (the person who seems to be generating the recurrent spontaneous psychokinesis usually responds normally to the world around them), which I believe is probably where the Uncontrollable limitation comes from. (In case anyone want to get really pedantic about this, I'm not claiming that 'RSPK is real,' I'm saying that 'stories about poltergeists exist, and the RSPK explanation tends to go that way.')

So, in the scenario presented by the OP, the character keeps running, and the power attacks on its own (with a penalty for range if that applies), as if it didn't require a concentrate manoeuver.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Tinman

I'm GMing a new psionics campaign. I'm trying to figure out how Uncontrollable (B.116) works with a character.

If a character has the incontrollable limitation on it's power & is not in control of it at the time, are they restricted to concentrate maneuvers or can they act as they wish & the power essentially acts as a compartmentalized mind?

Example:
The character is trying to run away from 3 attackers (a full move) but the power (the GM) decides it's going to attack one of them (a concentrate).

Can the character run or is it restricted to only a step?

If one is not in control of the power, then it's not like they are concentrating to use & target the power. Right?

Also, does anyone's opinion of the above change if the power is Uncontrollable & Unconscious (B.115)?
Thanks for any help.

My opinion doesn't change if the Limitation is both Unconscious and Uncontrollable as opposed to "merely" Uncontrollable.

Unless you have some trait that allows you to take two separate actions at once, you may neither run nor take a single step, unless that's what your uncontrollable power was going for anyway. For example, if you had Warp with Uncontrollable, you might Warp the full distance Warp allowed in the direction you were going to run in, but you wouldn't be able to run or step until you made your Will roll to regain control.

Just because you're not in control of the power, it does not mean that your character is not Concentrating to use the Power, or for that matter to target with the power. Once Uncontrollable kicks in, he's restricted to the Maneuvers that the power chooses, and if there's only one Maneuver possible for the power, then that's the Maneuver he's taking, regardless of what else you'd like to do. The GM might take suggestions from you as to the likeliest target for the Power, but at the end of the day and the write-up, the final decision about Maneuvers, targeting, etc. rests with the GM.

The key is that the GM effectively plays your character for you when Uncontrollable kicks in, that's why the limitation gives you a discount on the price of the ability. Your character may have negative opinions about what his power is doing with/to/for him but that's as far as his say in the matter goes.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

So, in the scenario presented by the OP, the character keeps running, and the power attacks on its own... as if it didn't require a concentrate manoeuver.

Or not. The player doesn't get to dictate what an Uncontrollable power does (kind of by definition). And the fact that it's a Limitation means that it's supposed to mostly be disadvantageous.

Originally Posted by B116

• manifest at undesirable or inappropriate times
• as if it were an entity of prankish or hostile nature
• often reflect your 'suppressed desires' as reflected in quirks and mental disadvantages

In short, an Uncontrollable power isn't an Ally that will help you out. There is the one line "a harmful ability goes after obvious foes first", but that same sentence points out that no one is safe, and once your ability becomes Uncontrollably destructive it continues until you "destroy everything around you" -- or at least until you make a Will roll to stop the power (which doesn't normally require a Concentrate Maneuver, but that would fit the concept of portraying that internal battle of wills as often seen in fiction). Your ability might decide to take out its grudge against that annoying paladin that's always getting in the way. Run around a corner, so there's no LOS, and one of your nearby friends gets hammered. Or it might bring down the ceiling in front of your pursuing foes, blocking your access to the treasures beyond, rather than conveniently killing them as a bunch of free actions. It'll also "go after obvious foes" when you're trying to negotiate your past past those foes or accept a surrender.

This is the sort of ability where the GM and player need to confer during Session Zero to establish the expectations of how the ability misbehaves given the character concept. Don't wait to argue it out at the table, or try to throw rules back and forth to mechanically determine what happens. (GURPS rules are written for cooperative consenting adults, not to serve as the battleground for hostile competitors.) If you don't want your own ability causing you as much trouble as it's worth once every three times it comes up in the game at all, don't take this Limitation.

[Tinman]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Or not. The player doesn't get to dictate what an Uncontrollable power does (kind of by definition). And the fact that it's a Limitation means that it's supposed to mostly be disadvantageous.
In short, an Uncontrollable power isn't an Ally that will help you out. There is the one line "a harmful ability goes after obvious foes first", but that same sentence points out that no one is safe, and once your ability becomes Uncontrollably destructive it continues until you "destroy everything around you" -- or at least until you make a Will roll to stop the power (which doesn't normally require a Concentrate Maneuver, but that would fit the concept of portraying that internal battle of wills as often seen in fiction). Your ability might decide to take out its grudge against that annoying paladin that's always getting in the way. Run around a corner, so there's no LOS, and one of your nearby friends gets hammered. Or it might bring down the ceiling in front of your pursuing foes, blocking your access to the treasures beyond, rather than conveniently killing them as a bunch of free actions. It'll also "go after obvious foes" when you're trying to negotiate your past past those foes or accept a surrender.

This is the sort of ability where the GM and player need to confer during Session Zero to establish the expectations of how the ability misbehaves given the character concept. Don't wait to argue it out at the table, or try to throw rules back and forth to mechanically determine what happens. (GURPS rules are written for cooperative consenting adults, not to serve as the battleground for hostile competitors.) If you don't want your own ability causing you as much trouble as it's worth once every three times it comes up in the game at all, don't take this Limitation.

The above is all well & good and I agree with all you said.
However, do you have an opinion on if it should prevent free action or does it limit the player's maneuvers?
I am the GM & I'm trying to figure out my position on it & reading why yes or no is valuable to me.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Tinman

The above is all well & good and I agree with all you said.
However, do you have an opinion on if it should prevent free action or does it limit the player's maneuvers?
I am the GM & I'm trying to figure out my position on it & reading why yes or no is valuable to me.

Given the lack of consensus, you might try reaching out to Kromm for an official ruling 🤷