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Old 06-06-2022, 01:28 PM   #21
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Dragon guano

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Originally Posted by warhorse11h View Post
No one even suggested anything like that. Of course, if you summon a myrmidon who has a sword and shield or a hammer or mace, they should be in his possession the whole time he is present and will vanish with him. But again, an arrow fired at some distance might be left behind, or perhaps not as you see fit in your games. Don't put words in someone's mouth just so you can take a cheap shot.
I have no interest in taking cheap shots at anyone.

It just looked to me like that was what you were suggesting. That is, you were suggesting it might not be the case that:

Quote:
. . . anything that came with a summoned being or separated from it while it was present vanishes with it when the spell ends. All the rules say is that the summoned being vanishes. . . . Of course, it does complicate things if the summoned being leaves things behind.
You were focusing on arrows, but it seemed to me like you were suggesting things created by Summon Myrmidon other than the being itself, might continue to exist. Because, I still see no reason why summoned arrows (if arrows even are an option) would be any different from anything else summoned (i.e. they're all conjured and therefore vanish when the spell ends)? (BTW, I also don't see that a summoned myrmidon's weapon can't be used by someone else while they exist. Illusions can't separate, but summons aren't illusions.)
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Old 06-09-2022, 12:54 AM   #22
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Dragon guano

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
BTW, I also don't see that a summoned myrmidon's weapon can't be used by someone else while they exist. Illusions can't separate, but summons aren't illusions.
Now this is theatrical! For example...
MACDUFF: “I have no words. My voice is in my sword. And since I see you don't have yours with you today, prepare to die oh foul Macbeth!”

MERLIN (off-stage): waves a hand - a myrmidon with a two-handed sword appears next to Macbeth

MYRMIDON: hands sword to Macbeth

MACBETH: "Lay on, MacDuff! Bring it baby!"

MERLIN: "And don't take all day -- I'm a bit tired."
Or something like that.
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Old 06-09-2022, 08:27 AM   #23
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: Dragon guano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
You were focusing on arrows, but it seemed to me like you were suggesting things created by Summon Myrmidon other than the being itself, might continue to exist. Because, I still see no reason why summoned arrows (if arrows even are an option) would be any different from anything else summoned (i.e. they're all conjured and therefore vanish when the spell ends)? (BTW, I also don't see that a summoned myrmidon's weapon can't be used by someone else while they exist. Illusions can't separate, but summons aren't illusions.)
Skarg, is there any reason arrows shouldn't be an option for summoned myrmidons?
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Old 06-10-2022, 01:34 AM   #24
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Dragon guano

If working summoned myrmidon arrows were allowed, damage taken by anyone struck by one should probably be reduced when the arrow vanishes, provided it wasn't pulled out already. Maybe that's a can of worms, but it might be a fun can of worms.
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Old 06-10-2022, 07:43 AM   #25
hcobb
 
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Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Dragon guano

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Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck View Post
If working summoned myrmidon arrows were allowed, damage taken by anyone struck by one should probably be reduced when the arrow vanishes, provided it wasn't pulled out already. Maybe that's a can of worms, but it might be a fun can of worms.
The advantage is that they're not silver or poisoned, and you don't have to pull them out at the risk of further damage.
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Old 06-10-2022, 07:45 AM   #26
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Durham, NC
Default Re: Dragon guano

I definitely allow archer myrmidons. Never had anyone try reusing their arrows. If so, I would have the arrows disappear with the myrmidon; so use them quickly. The big downside to summoning an archer is that your foe (if intelligent) immediately knows this is not an illusion.

BTW, the spell states "the Myrmidon can be any starting (32-point) fighter with any legal combination of regular weapons and armor." Bows and crossbows are regular weapons. I take this to exclude magic weapons, fine weapons and peculiar weapons. All else are fair game.

Last edited by Axly Suregrip; 06-10-2022 at 07:50 AM.
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Old 06-10-2022, 08:25 AM   #27
hcobb
 
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Dragon guano

I exclude Unusual Weapons, and tools such as torches and molitails.


Summon Halfling!
ST 4, DX 18, IQ 8, 3*dagger (1d-1)
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Old 06-10-2022, 12:03 PM   #28
Bill_in_IN
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Indiana
Default Re: Dragon guano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
I definitely allow archer myrmidons. Never had anyone try reusing their arrows. If so, I would have the arrows disappear with the myrmidon; so use them quickly. The big downside to summoning an archer is that your foe (if intelligent) immediately knows this is not an illusion.

BTW, the spell states "the Myrmidon can be any starting (32-point) fighter with any legal combination of regular weapons and armor." Bows and crossbows are regular weapons. I take this to exclude magic weapons, fine weapons and peculiar weapons. All else are fair game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
I exclude Unusual Weapons, and tools such as torches and molitails.


Summon Halfling!
ST 4, DX 18, IQ 8, 3*dagger (1d-1)
These are both very fair applications that are well within the rules. There is no reason why a Myrmidon couldn't be an archer with some hand weapons/shield for close combat. Easy talents to justify for IQ 7 or 8 32-attribute character.

But now, allow me to test the definition. Can a summoned Myrmidon be an Unarmed Combats (UC 3 talent) guy ST 8, DX 12, IQ 12?

I'm inclined to say NO. This is because the Myrmidon is assumed to have minimal talents for the weapons wielded. UC 3 is not minimal talent level. UC 1 would be useless for a Myrmidon.
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Old 06-10-2022, 01:46 PM   #29
TippetsTX
 
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Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: North Texas
Default Re: Dragon guano

Back-in-the-day your summoned myrmidon came w/ a broadsword and nothing else. Sometimes I miss that kind of clarity.
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Old 07-25-2022, 08:27 PM   #30
Draygon
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Default Re: Dragon guano

Beware- I heard somewhere Dragon Guano is self combustible. 🔥
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