Counting cp on a template, how to do it?

stranger38 · 08-22-2012, 01:24 PM

Okay, here with another round, this time templates. how does one count the template's points? i mean... let's take the Slayer template from horror. "Yay, i'll be like some Dean winchester badass" ok, it's 160 points to buy the template... ok... but i discount those disadvantage points? if it's 160 and has -30 diadvantages, it's a 130 points template right? what i'm reading wrong here?

vierasmarius · 08-22-2012, 01:32 PM

The 160 points listed at the top of the template is the sum total of all attributes, advantages, disadvantages and skills, including "discretionary" points (pick 15 points from among X, pick -30 points from among Y). The Slayer includes -40 points in Disadvantages (a -10 cp Obsession plus -30 discretionary) and 200 points in everything else, for a total of 160 cp.

ericthered · 08-22-2012, 01:46 PM

If your GM is putting a disad limit on the game, some templates are not considered to count against the limit, particularly racial templates. Professional templates usually have the disads at full credit though.

Kromm · 08-22-2012, 09:41 PM

If a character template has A points in attributes and secondary characteristics, fixed advantages and perks worth B points, a choice of advantages and perks worth C points overall, fixed disadvantages worth -D points, a choice of disadvantages worth -E points, mandatory skills worth F points, a choice of skills worth G points, and H points in special abilities at the end, then template value is:

A + B + C - D - E + F + G + H

That is what's listed as the template cost. You seem to be assuming that template cost is A + B + C + F + G + H, and that -D and -E aren't included. But those things are included in template cost. If the GM imposes a disadvantage limit, then they count against it.

GURPS doesn't use a Hero-like scheme where a character's point value is the value of the character's positive abilities, and if these go X points above the "free points" assigned by the GM, you have to take -X in disadvantages. It uses a scheme where a character's point value is the sum of the values of all his traits, positive or negative. In something like Hero, the GM says "You have 200 points, but can go up to 250," and then you get 200 points for free and can get another 0 to 50 points from disadvantages resulting in a 200- to 250-point character. In GURPS, the GM says "You have 200 points, but can take up to -50 points in disadvantages," and then you can take 0 to -50 in disadvantages, spend 200 to 250 points, and end up with a 200-point character.

GodBeastX · 08-23-2012, 05:35 AM

Yeah, I tend to rule anything in a racial template doesn't count as disadvantage limit, considering everyone in your race has it. Is that a disadvantage over anyone else in your race?

ericbsmith · 08-23-2012, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GodBeastX

Yeah, I tend to rule anything in a racial template doesn't count as disadvantage limit, considering everyone in your race has it. Is that a disadvantage over anyone else in your race?

First, the OP isn't talking about Racial Templates, he was talking specifically about a Character Template.

Second, by the RAW Racial Disadvantages already do not count against the Campaign Disadvantage limit (if the GM is using one at all). See p. B452, first column half way down.

Bruno · 08-23-2012, 07:59 AM

Notably, those racial disads don't count even if your race comes out to a negative point total.

GodBeastX · 08-23-2012, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

First, the OP isn't talking about Racial Templates, he was talking specifically about a Character Template.

Second, by the RAW Racial Disadvantages already do not count against the Campaign Disadvantage limit (if the GM is using one at all). See p. B452, first column half way down.

Point noted.

Also, I took it that way because of that write up. I didn't specify that in my words. In my groups people tend to invent races and had a few players think the physical traits of their invented race counted towards disadvantage limits.

~~Quixotic Qlippoth~~ · 08-23-2012, 11:12 AM

I don't have the book in question, but it sounds like you're asking if disadvantages in a non-racial template count towards a disadvantage total and as everyone has said- they do. The template may say something like "take up to thirty points in the following disadvantages" but you may not be required to take any of them-- which makes something of a variable in the total cost of the template.

Is that what you're asking?

I know some GMs don't count low attributes against disadvantage totals... I do, but I know some who don't.

08-22-2012, 01:24 PM	#1
stranger38 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Indaiatuba/SP Brazil	Counting cp on a template, how to do it? Okay, here with another round, this time templates. how does one count the template's points? i mean... let's take the Slayer template from horror. "Yay, i'll be like some Dean winchester badass" ok, it's 160 points to buy the template... ok... but i discount those disadvantage points? if it's 160 and has -30 diadvantages, it's a 130 points template right? what i'm reading wrong here?

08-22-2012, 01:32 PM	#2
vierasmarius Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oregon	Re: Counting cp on a template, how to do it? The 160 points listed at the top of the template is the sum total of all attributes, advantages, disadvantages and skills, including "discretionary" points (pick 15 points from among X, pick -30 points from among Y). The Slayer includes -40 points in Disadvantages (a -10 cp Obsession plus -30 discretionary) and 200 points in everything else, for a total of 160 cp.

08-22-2012, 01:46 PM	#3
ericthered Hero of Democracy Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: far from the ocean	Re: Counting cp on a template, how to do it? If your GM is putting a disad limit on the game, some templates are not considered to count against the limit, particularly racial templates. Professional templates usually have the disads at full credit though.

08-22-2012, 09:41 PM	#4
Kromm *GURPS* Line Editor Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Montréal, Québec	Re: Counting cp on a template, how to do it? If a character template has A points in attributes and secondary characteristics, fixed advantages and perks worth B points, a choice of advantages and perks worth C points overall, fixed disadvantages worth -D points, a choice of disadvantages worth -E points, mandatory skills worth F points, a choice of skills worth G points, and H points in special abilities at the end, then template value is: A + B + C - D - E + F + G + H That is what's listed as the template cost. You seem to be assuming that template cost is A + B + C + F + G + H, and that -D and -E aren't included. But those things are included in template cost. If the GM imposes a disadvantage limit, then they count against it. *GURPS* doesn't use a *Hero-like scheme where a character's point value is the value of the character's positive abilities, and if these go X points above the "free points" assigned by the GM, you have to take -X in disadvantages. It uses a scheme where a character's point value is the sum of the values of all his traits, positive or negative. In something like Hero, the GM says "You have 200 points, but can go up to 250," and then you get 200 points for free and can get another 0 to 50 points from disadvantages resulting in a 200- to 250-point character. In GURPS, the GM says "You have 200 points, but can take up to -50 points in disadvantages," and then you can take 0 to -50 in disadvantages, spend 200 to 250 points, and end up with a 200-point character. __________________ Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS* Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just *GURPS* News]

08-23-2012, 05:35 AM	#5
GodBeastX Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Behind You	Re: Counting cp on a template, how to do it? Yeah, I tend to rule anything in a racial template doesn't count as disadvantage limit, considering everyone in your race has it. Is that a disadvantage over anyone else in your race?

08-23-2012, 07:59 AM	#7
Bruno Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada	Re: Counting cp on a template, how to do it? Notably, those racial disads don't count even if your race comes out to a negative point total. __________________ All about Size Modifier; Unified Hit Location Table A Wiki for my F2F Group A neglected GURPS blog

08-23-2012, 11:12 AM	#9
~~Quixotic Qlippoth~~ Banned Join Date: Jul 2012	Re: Counting cp on a template, how to do it? I don't have the book in question, but it sounds like you're asking if disadvantages in a non-racial template count towards a disadvantage total and as everyone has said- they do. The template may say something like "take up to thirty points in the following disadvantages" but you may not be required to take any of them-- which makes something of a variable in the total cost of the template. Is that what you're asking? I know some GMs don't count low attributes against disadvantage totals... I do, but I know some who don't.