Steam train

[Balor Patch]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

It is difficult to really arm a train, but they might do this in a post-Apocalyptic scenario.

In the post-WW2 era they're rare but before that they manage to fill the 528 pages of Armoured Trains by Malmassari.

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by Dalillama

It's not that terribly difficult, both World Wars featured armed
Trains. It's usually not very helpful, though.

That's actually what I meant. If you're adding armaments to existing train cars, it's difficult to do it well. A train is long and usually has lots of windows in the passenger areas.

Also, it doesn't have much armor. Though the cars might have enough to be of use against pistols, if the windows are taken care of. I don't know.

If you have the resources of a government it would probably be easier.

One thing to remember is that trains weren't really that fast, but they could go constantly. (sort of)

[YankeeGamer]

The challenge with a train is the tracks. One adventure for the old Twilight 2000 game had people traveling across the ruins of Poland in a steam train. Among other things, it was necessary to have a few cars with materials to repair the tracks. (At one point, we had to resort to pulling up track behind us to lay track in front of us, as the existing rails had been taken by locals to build an ironclad.)

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

That's actually what I meant. If you're adding armaments to existing train cars, it's difficult to do it well."

Actually, some armored trains had blockhouse cars for infantry in addition to the armored locomotive, tender, and various gun cars.

It would be easy to armor a train car, with no openings except for an armored door and gunslits. A wooden frame might not survive hits from cannon shells or explosive blasts, but it would certainly hold up against small arms fire and shrapnel.

There are also pictures of late 19th century gondola cars or flat cars with iron plate extensions and gunslits to allow standing troops to fire from cover. Not so good against grenades or mortar fire, but reasonable protection against small arms fire.

Up-armoring an existing train car using boiler plate or similar materials (e.g., sandbags, railroad sleeper or rails) is something a small shop could do with proper tools and sufficient supplies. Up-armoring an entire train, including purpose-built gun cars, much more expensive but wouldn't be beyond the means of a large company.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

That's actually what I meant. If you're adding armaments to existing train cars, it's difficult to do it well. A train is long and usually has lots of windows in the passenger areas.

Also, it doesn't have much armor. Though the cars might have enough to be of use against pistols, if the windows are taken care of. I don't know.

Against small arms stacking sandbags up the insides of the walls will work quite well as a quick means of adding armour.

Given more time attaching sheet metal to the sides (including skirts to protect the running gear) is pretty straightforward. Remember, for trains adding weight to passenger cars isn't going to affect it much unless you've only got a small engine intended to light passenger trains.

One thing to remember is that trains weren't really that fast, but they could go constantly. (sort of)

It depends on what you mean by 'not that fast'. For most of their history they were at least as fast as other means of land transport (horses, carriages, early cars on less than great roads), and were more reliable than most.

The big vulnerability of an armed and armoured train is of course the tracks - remove a section of track or seriously warp it and the train is stopped, possibly catastrophically if it didn't notice the break in time and ran into it.

[Phil Masters]

Yeah. Armouring a train to badass fighting vehicle levels should be entirely feasible. But in the end, if the enemy can get a couple of guys onto the track with a barrel of black powder or crowbars and an uninterrupted half-hour to work, or can zero artillery onto it, then all the armour in the world isn't going to get your train anywhere.

And stopping civilian trains on regular runs is often easy. Change the signals to red by hand.

[Navaronegun]

Gurps Steam-Tech has stats and info for a military train (P.80).

Armored trains in the steam age and early 20th century were very much a thing as well.

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/a-r...a-db3e3180b50c

https://youtu.be/XsjzY0lGLdw

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Yeah. Armouring a train to badass fighting vehicle levels should be entirely feasible. But in the end, if the enemy can get a couple of guys onto the track with a barrel of black powder or crowbars and an uninterrupted half-hour to work, or can zero artillery onto it, then all the armour in the world isn't going to get your train anywhere.

Sticking tractor (tank, in modern times) treads on an armoured train should be feasible, but wasn't (AFAICT) done historically, and unless they're very strangely designed treads, wouldn't work too well on train tracks. You either go on the rails, or you carry them with you.

[Not]

This sort of thing works best when it's a surprise. Think of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid where the Hole in the Wall Gang tries to rob a train but discovers the box cars are carrying mounted and armed lawmen and trackers.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Yeah. Armouring a train to badass fighting vehicle levels should be entirely feasible. But in the end, if the enemy can get a couple of guys onto the track with a barrel of black powder or crowbars and an uninterrupted half-hour to work, or can zero artillery onto it, then all the armour in the world isn't going to get your train anywhere.

And stopping civilian trains on regular runs is often easy. Change the signals to red by hand.

The downside of that is that the enemy is then denied those tracks as well. If both sides are moving supplies on the same rail network, that's a problem. One of the major historical uses of armoured trains was in the Russian Revolution or instance, where all the involved groups needed urgently to keep the rail network usable so they'd still have one when they won.