11-16-2021, 06:43 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Aug 2019
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[High Tech/Tactical Shooting] Reloading Your Shotgun
Majority of shotguns with internal magazines have (2i) statistic. Meaning it takes 1 Ready Action to draw a shot, 1 Ready Action to insert it.
Fast-Draw (Ammo) reduces this by 1 second per 3 cartridges, or fraction of thereof. So rolling Fast-Draw (Ammo) while reloading shaves off 0.33 seconds. Now one bullet is loaded into the gun in 1.66 seconds. Question 1: What happens to to the .66? Round up to 2? Round down to 1? If it's round up to 2, doesn't that mean Fast-Draw is useless in such scenario? ----------------------------------------------- Quick-Reload (Internal Magazine) shaves off 25% from reload time AFTER adjustments for Fast Draw. 1.66*0.75=1.245 Quick Reload states resulting number is rounded up, but with minimum savings of 1 second. That means that Fast-Draw (Ammo) and Quick Reload (Internal Magazine) reload 1 shot in 1 seconds Question 2: Did I get it all right? ---------------------------------------------- Let's assume that our shotgun now has 2 slots for ammo instead of 1, and it takes 4 rounds to reload 2 shots. Double-Loading states that success at it shaves off 1 second per 2 cartridges, in addition to effects of Fast-Draw. 4 rounds, modified by Fast-Draw, becomes 3.33. Modified by double-loading becomes 2.33. Modified by Quick Reoad, 2.33*0.75 becomes 1.7475 round up, but with minimum saving of one second. Question 3: Did I get it all right? My character can reload two shots of a shotgun as 1 Ready action? ----------------------------------------- My shotgun now has 6 shots. It takes 12 seconds to reload it. 10 Seconds with Fast-Draw 7 seconds with Double Loading 5 Seconds with Quick Reload Question 4: Since reloading two-shot shotgun fully takes me 1 ready action, can I roll Double-Loading three times to reload my 6-shot shotgun in 3 seconds instead of 5? ---------------------------------------- Martial Arts allows Multiple Fast-Draws for weapons at -2 per weapon, thrown weapons are given as example, and on success all the drawn weapons are ready in your hand. Question 5: Would rolling Fast-Draw at an extra -10 (for 5 shots drawn after first 1) allow me to cut the reload time by 50%, since instead of drawing 6 shots separately, I drew them as one big pile, ready in my hand, skipping the "draw" part and moving straight to "load"? Did I get it all right? Am I going nuts?
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Your level of GURPS proficiency: Pedestrian: 3e vs 4e Proficient: Early 4e vs Late 4e Master: Kromm vs PK GURPS: Shooting things for fun and profit Last edited by MrFix; 11-16-2021 at 07:48 PM. |
11-16-2021, 07:51 PM | #2 | |||||
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: [High Tech/Tactical Shooting] Reloading Your Shotgun
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(EDIT: Again, checking Tactical Shooting, Double-Loading's default of -2 implies it's actually making use of the Multiple Fast-Draws rule, so you can't "stack" them. Drawing more than 2 rounds at once could indeed justify a further reduction in reload time, however. Just use the same amount of time for each step as it takes with double-loading, but reload however many rounds you grabbed. So, let's look at 6 cartridges into a tube magazine. Normally, you're looking at 12 seconds to reload all 6 - 2-2-2-2-2-2. With Fast Draw, that's instead 10 seconds - 2-2-1-2-2-1. With Fast-Draw and Double Loading reduces this to 8 seconds - 3-2-3, reloading 2 cartridges at each step. Add in Quick Reload, you can cut this down to 5 - 2-1-2. With Fast Draw, Quick Reload, and grabbing 3 at a time (for an additional -2), you'd cut things down to 3 or 4 seconds (-1 relative to using Double Loading) - either 2-1 or 2-2 (grabbing 3 cartridges at each step; I'd be inclined to go with 4 seconds, 2-2). Grabbing 6 cartridges at a time lets you reload all 6 in only 2 seconds, albeit at a further -8 relative to Double Loading. EDIT2: This is probably cinematic above 3 cartridges) I don't think you're going nuts, although you are exhibiting some symptoms of MUNCHKIN Syndrome.
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11-16-2021, 08:04 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Aug 2019
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Re: [High Tech/Tactical Shooting] Reloading Your Shotgun
You got it wrong in third example. Two shot shotgun takes 4 seconds to reload. Fast Draw explicitly says to retain fractions.
4-0.66=3.33 (fast draw) 3.33-1=2.33 (double loading) 2.33*0.75=1.7 something 1.7 something rounds up to 2, and quick reload cuts it down to 1. This is because reloading with all these abilities is one continuous action. Since it takes 5 seconds to reload 6 shots, each shot consumes 0.75 seconds, and each loading motion loads 2 shells. At no point in the process can reloader only load 1 shot
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Your level of GURPS proficiency: Pedestrian: 3e vs 4e Proficient: Early 4e vs Late 4e Master: Kromm vs PK GURPS: Shooting things for fun and profit Last edited by MrFix; 11-16-2021 at 08:14 PM. |
11-16-2021, 08:16 PM | #4 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: [High Tech/Tactical Shooting] Reloading Your Shotgun
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11-16-2021, 08:20 PM | #5 | |
Join Date: Aug 2019
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Re: [High Tech/Tactical Shooting] Reloading Your Shotgun
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Equation is such (Time to reload X - (number of shots / 3, retain fractions) - (number of shots / 2, drop fractions))*0.75. round up but minimum saving of 1 second from quick reload = final time to reload. Calculating patterns for reloads mid play is extensive process and slows the game down greatly. If you round up after every step, Fast Draw becomes useless for 1 and 2 shot guns. Edit Also worth noting, basic set states that fast draw ammo has minimum saving of 1 second too, meaning that a man with just fast draw should be able to reload 1 shot in 1 second
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Your level of GURPS proficiency: Pedestrian: 3e vs 4e Proficient: Early 4e vs Late 4e Master: Kromm vs PK GURPS: Shooting things for fun and profit Last edited by MrFix; 11-16-2021 at 08:34 PM. |
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11-16-2021, 09:25 PM | #6 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: [High Tech/Tactical Shooting] Reloading Your Shotgun
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I think the authors of High Tech assumed characters needing to reload would basically duck behind cover and reload multiple shots before getting back into action, hence things like shaving off 1 second every 3 cartridges. Quote:
Also... take a look again at Quick-Reload in Tactical Shooting. It specifically states how long each of Double-Barreled Shotguns and internal-magazine shotguns take to reload with Fast-Draw alone, Double-Loading, and Double Loading + Quick-Reload. For Double-Barreled Shotguns, this is 4 seconds per full reload (both cartridges) with Fast-Draw (a double-barreled shotgun with an ejector takes 5 seconds to fully reload, not 4 - see HT87), 3 seconds with Double-Loading, and 2 seconds if you add on Quick-Reload. For a 5 shot internal magazine, it's 8 seconds with Fast-Draw, 6 seconds with Double-Loading, and 5 seconds with Quick-Reload. Note a 6 shot internal magazine would change these to 10 seconds, 8 seconds, and 6 seconds, respectively.
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11-16-2021, 09:45 PM | #7 |
Join Date: Aug 2019
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Re: [High Tech/Tactical Shooting] Reloading Your Shotgun
I am not talking about double barrels
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Your level of GURPS proficiency: Pedestrian: 3e vs 4e Proficient: Early 4e vs Late 4e Master: Kromm vs PK GURPS: Shooting things for fun and profit |
11-16-2021, 09:51 PM | #8 |
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Snoopy's basement
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Re: [High Tech/Tactical Shooting] Reloading Your Shotgun
Where is the rule you guys are talking about?
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11-17-2021, 06:26 AM | #9 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: [High Tech/Tactical Shooting] Reloading Your Shotgun
That's... great. Most of my post talked about shotguns with internal magazines.
Away from my books at the moment, but most of this is from Tactical Shooting, which has the Quick-Reload Perk (which I believe is also in PU2) and the Double-Loading Technique (which may have originated in HT). The base reload times are from High Tech. Both sets of rules seem to be working under the assumption of characters doing a full reload in one go, and don't really give advice on how to handle things if the character is basically reloading individual cartridges between other actions. Legalistically, because HT states Fast-Draw with an internal magazine (which is normally 2 seconds per reloaded cartridge) shaves off a second per 3 cartridges or fraction thereof, there's nothing preventing a rules-lawyery player from saying "I reload 1 cartridge," taking 1 second (2 per cartridge, -1 for Fast Drawing 3 or fewer cartridges), then the next second saying "I reload 1 cartridge," taking 1 second again. The intent seems to be more along the lines of "I'm 2 shots shy of full, I'll use Fast-Draw to reload, taking 3 seconds" or "I'm out of shots in my 5-round magazine, I'll use Fast-Draw to reload, taking 8 seconds."
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11-17-2021, 03:26 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Snoopy's basement
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Re: [High Tech/Tactical Shooting] Reloading Your Shotgun
Those are the places I looked and couldn't find the reference for Fast-Draw (Ammo).
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Tags |
high tech, reload, shotgun, shotguns, tactical shooting |
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