why is nonautonomous a 0pt feature instead of a disadvantage?

Plane · 09-03-2022, 05:14 PM

I've been reading this in Toolkit 2 and wondering about it.

It forbids you from buying basic speed or DX up or down. Fixed trait taboos seem like disadvantages to me but I've seen them in Basic Set as 0pt features so no big deal I guess.

But while you in theory have a basic speed and DX which are effectively pointless stats (why even list them?) it seems like the inability to use them is counter-acted by these benefits...

1) Basic Move appears to be uncoupled from Basic Speed, so if you are hit with stuff that penalizes Basic Speed (or it's underlying attributes HT and DX) then in theory your Basic Move would not be affected in situations it would be for autonomous creatures

2) in lieu of your DX 10 (because you always have DX 10) you can operate using the skill of your pilot (their control rolls)

3) in lieu of your Basic Speed of 5 and the Dodge normally derived from it (5+3=8) your Dodge instead derived from the control skill of your operator.

So it seems like Nonautonomous can be very advantageous if you have a high-skilled pilot serving your needs. This way, instead of dumping points into DX or combat skills (or Enhanced Dodge) you can just buy an Ally who has a high control/pilot skill and let them use your body to fight for you.

I'm trying to figure how this would differ from Compartmentalized Mind (Controls) ? B43 mentions "let an operator perform his own physical or mental maneuvers using your abilities".

If someone had CM(Controls) but was not "Nonautonomous" then would that mean your controllers can effectively give you attacks/parries/dodges using their maneuvers, but those attackers are performed at the vehicle's DX/speed and only Nonautonomous vehicles can substitute the pilot's DX/speed?

One thing I'm wondering about though is how this would work in situations where you have things with controls which clearly benefit from pilots, yet also can operate independently.

Power Rangers for example, when they initially summon their Zords, you see the Zords appear on a sort of autopilot as they emerge from hiding spots and run over to the power rangers, so they appear to have limited IQ and DX of their own to operate autonomously, but they still appear to benefit from the skill/DX of the Rangers once they jump in to pilot them.

I think the same applies to the Voltron lions since Black Lion apparently has done some operation on it's own too.

whswhs · 09-03-2022, 06:21 PM

Compartmentalized Mind (Controls) lets you HAVE an operator but doesn't compel you to be guided by the operator.

09-03-2022, 05:14 PM	#1
Plane Join Date: Aug 2018	why is nonautonomous a 0pt feature instead of a disadvantage? I've been reading this in Toolkit 2 and wondering about it. It forbids you from buying basic speed or DX up or down. Fixed trait taboos seem like disadvantages to me but I've seen them in Basic Set as 0pt features so no big deal I guess. But while you in theory have a basic speed and DX which are effectively pointless stats (why even list them?) it seems like the inability to use them is counter-acted by these benefits... 1) Basic Move appears to be uncoupled from Basic Speed, so if you are hit with stuff that penalizes Basic Speed (or it's underlying attributes HT and DX) then in theory your Basic Move would not be affected in situations it would be for autonomous creatures 2) in lieu of your DX 10 (because you always have DX 10) you can operate using the skill of your pilot (their control rolls) 3) in lieu of your Basic Speed of 5 and the Dodge normally derived from it (5+3=8) your Dodge instead derived from the control skill of your operator. So it seems like Nonautonomous can be very advantageous if you have a high-skilled pilot serving your needs. This way, instead of dumping points into DX or combat skills (or Enhanced Dodge) you can just buy an Ally who has a high control/pilot skill and let them use your body to fight for you. I'm trying to figure how this would differ from Compartmentalized Mind (Controls) ? B43 mentions "let an operator perform his own physical or mental maneuvers using your abilities". If someone had CM(Controls) but was not "Nonautonomous" then would that mean your controllers can effectively give you attacks/parries/dodges using their maneuvers, but those attackers are performed at the vehicle's DX/speed and only Nonautonomous vehicles can substitute the pilot's DX/speed? One thing I'm wondering about though is how this would work in situations where you have things with controls which clearly benefit from pilots, yet also can operate independently. Power Rangers for example, when they initially summon their Zords, you see the Zords appear on a sort of autopilot as they emerge from hiding spots and run over to the power rangers, so they appear to have limited IQ and DX of their own to operate autonomously, but they still appear to benefit from the skill/DX of the Rangers once they jump in to pilot them. I think the same applies to the Voltron lions since Black Lion apparently has done some operation on it's own too. __________________ what this forum is (17 March 2020 forum rules from Hackard)

09-03-2022, 06:21 PM	#2
whswhs Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Lawrence, KS	Re: why is nonautonomous a 0pt feature instead of a disadvantage? Compartmentalized Mind (Controls) lets you HAVE an operator but doesn't compel you to be guided by the operator. __________________ Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more.