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Old 09-25-2018, 10:39 AM   #81
Dalin
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Default Re: On being Feared

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
That seems like a strange way to analyze it.

On one hand, a culture that doesn't have necromancy might be one where people don't recognize Nergul as a necromancer, and thus are less likely to be frightened of her in the first place. She might just look like "that ghoul in the weird robes." They might be cautious, but she wouldn't be Feared.

On the other hand, the question is whether those who do know what necromancy is, and fear it, are also likely to react badly to fear in the role of prospective employees. Is intimidating someone an inappropriate way to conduct a job interview?
Yeah, I admit I'm getting a bit tangled up in all the layers here. What I was getting at, though, is that even for people who know and fear something (which I'm presuming for basically all candidates since social regard is meant to be obvious and near universal in the reference culture), there are differences based on general attitude. For example, if I'm a typical thug I might be intimidated by a job interview with a mob boss, but I wouldn't find it inappropriate and I might be psyched to work for them because they have a fearsome reputation. The +3 bonus seems entirely appropriate. On the other hand, if a regular school teacher (like me!) walked into the same interview, they might be more likely to react poorly.
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Old 09-25-2018, 10:42 AM   #82
Dalin
 
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Default Re: On being Feared

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Nergul's player was saying that Nergul wanted to learn Diplomacy or Savoir-Faire; Savoir-Faire may be an important skill for dealing with touchy Status-obsessed rivals. Nergul has been somewhat outside of mainstream society, as a shaman dealing with matters that frighten ordinary people; now she seems to be trying to fit in more.
I love the idea of this added layer. She'd still inherently scare people because she's a necromancer, but diplomacy would represent her ability to soothe their fears and play against stereotype.
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Old 09-25-2018, 10:57 AM   #83
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: On being Feared

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Originally Posted by Dalin View Post
I love the idea of this added layer. She'd still inherently scare people because she's a necromancer, but diplomacy would represent her ability to soothe their fears and play against stereotype.
Or Savoir-Faire her ability to deal with it politely.

In my Pyramid article on social arts, I noted that Savoir-Faire rolls were made at up to -3 if you were asking someone to do something dangerous, and defined a technique, Dangerous Request, that allowed you to use buy off the penalty by politely hinting that it was more dangerous to disappoint you. Having a point in Intimidation was a prerequisite for learning this. Perhaps Social Regard (Feared) could substitute for the technique. You'd still have to make the roll, but the penalty would be nullified.

Correlated with this is the idea that if you don't use Savoir-Faire (or Diplomacy, or perhaps some other Influence skill), people may really not want to deal with you, even if they comply in the short run. That is, Feared would be good for getting immediate cooperation, but it wouldn't usually result in long-term loyalty; most people would want to do what you were asking for and then never see you again.
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Old 09-25-2018, 11:10 AM   #84
Gold & Appel Inc
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: One Mile Up
Default Re: On being Feared

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
It's characteristic of Social Regard that while you get the bonus all the time, it's sometimes inconvenient. In the case of Feared, for example, it's specified that others who react to you favorably do so more or less as if you had made an Intimidation roll; they never quite feel relaxed or friendly in your presence. ~~~~~

What if she doesn't want that effect?
Not going into too much detail, this is an experience that I have trouble simulating. I am what I am, and some people have trouble processing that. The answer is fear.

Not everyone wants fear. It's a personal choice. You can get what you want, alone.
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Old 09-25-2018, 11:29 AM   #85
whswhs
 
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Default Re: On being Feared

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Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc View Post
Not going into too much detail, this is an experience that I have trouble simulating. I am what I am, and some people have trouble processing that. The answer is fear.
Well, that's the starting point. But I think there are a couple of directions one could go with this:

You change what you are so that people have less reason to be afraid of you.

You develop social skills for dealing with people in a way that sets the fear aside: Fast-Talk to distract them, Savoir-Faire to interact with them on a higher plane where no one would make overt threats, Diplomacy to seek common interests. (Of course, diplomacy is also the art of saying "nice doggie" while you find a rock.)

Maybe there are others. If I confront Nergul with other people being somewhat afraid of her, maybe the player will come up with some.
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Old 09-25-2018, 01:48 PM   #86
Harbinjer
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Default Re: On being Feared

I have only skimmed this thread, but wanted to mention a few things I don't see being discussed.

Reaction rolls indicate a person's response in THAT moment. If you are afraid of me, and I can tell, I might say something like "don't be afraid." At that point, if I make a successful savoir-faire, or fast-talk, or something similar that indicates I was able to convince you there's nothing to be afraid of, there should be another reaction roll with modifiers indicating a better outlook.

In the case of Hirelings... The ones that fear you may work for you only out of fear, they may be too afraid to show up for work, or somewhere in between (this should depend on what exactly the fear is, and how much). Either way, as they get to know you (assuming they give you a chance, and you aren't continually doing scary things), there should be more reaction rolls and the fear should diminish over time.

Unless you are actively intimidating them or otherwise making threats, I would not consider the ones that do show up to work to be unwilling. Whatever they may be imagining is thier disadvantage, not yours.
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Old 09-27-2018, 05:50 AM   #87
coronatiger
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
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Default Re: On being Feared

I look forward to reading how Nergul tackles the situation.
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Old 10-02-2018, 09:18 AM   #88
whswhs
 
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Default Re: On being Feared

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I look forward to reading how Nergul tackles the situation.
Well, so far, Nergul decided to look for a local informant who could help her find a house that was for sale. Her roll to search for one was a success, so I put her in touch with Arishat, the mother of another PC, Hanno, and the owner of several residential properties, which meant that she was informed about that market. This wasn't a conflict of interest for Arishat, by the way, because she herself didn't buy properties of the size Nergul was looking for.

So Arishat got a critical success on her roll to locate a suitable property. And that inspired me to get creative: Instead of a house, it was an inn, slightly smaller than the house Nergul had wanted, but conveniently located near one of the city gates (and thus far from the river, which lowered the ground rent), with one large room suited to men or trolls (such as Nergul's friend Sangmu). The owner was ready to sell it, and as it turned out, Nergul thought it was perfect.

So Nergul asked if the owner was willing to sell. And taking all her modifiers into account, I got a 9 (with the +3) or 5 (with the -1). Then Nergul tried using her body language, and I said that the owner really didn't want to sell but was afraid to say so outright. And then Nergul asked about getting him to be less afraid, and I let her first roll for "cultivating a persona," using Merchant+3 against his IQ, and then, when she won, use Merchant as an Influence skill at +1 rather than dealing with the -1 for inappropriate Influence. In other words, she got him out of "fear the creepy necromancer" mode and into "haggle" mode. And she was then able to get him to sell at a price she was prepared to pay.

Then they went to visit the owner of the ground, who asked Nergul about things like "will you be having an entire tribe of ghouls filling all the rooms and hanging out in the neighborhood?" and "can you keep the grounds clean so it doesn't turn into an unofficial dump?" And when Nergul assured him of this, and with Arishat as a character witness, he accepted 3 1/3 years' rent as advance payment for 3 1/2 years of occupancy, and had his household scribe record the bargain.
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Old 10-06-2018, 10:28 PM   #89
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: On being Feared

In further discussion with Nergul's player, she's told me that Nergul would like to find a young ghoul woman and buy her from her mother. I think that lessens the question of the appropriateness of fear and Intimidation. . . .
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Old 10-07-2018, 08:44 PM   #90
Neophyte42
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Default Re: On being Feared

Let's assume that if Nergul randomly showed up to a village and (with poor social skills) attempted to politely request some peasant to enter her service, that it would be a case of involuntary servitude. What the poor, misunderstood necromancer needs to do is find an agent to do initial interviews. Ideally, this agent should fear Nergul, this way the agent can dissuade applicants for the position.

"All I said is I'd ask around for the coin. Personally, even if I was as down on my luck as you, there's no way I'd enter service with a necromancer."

So at this point the applicant has an un-fearfully-influenced choice. Nergul should also do a final interview, mostly to verify that the potential hireling is suitable. This process should take longer, be more expensive, and potentially attract NPCs with interesting disadvantages.

"So, Bob, is there anything else I need to know about you?" Bob then considers the fact that he has been exiled from and hunted by the largest Assassin's Guild for botching a job, decides that this is clearly not relevant, and replies, "No, nothing at all."

Last edited by Neophyte42; 10-07-2018 at 08:45 PM. Reason: Grammar
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