07-31-2021, 03:12 AM | #61 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Fatigue for Warriors
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Note that using a stock and firing your pistol using both hands have the same in-game mechanical effects (aside from the stock costing money and adding weight), except that the stocked pistol uses a different skill. This would bother me, except in real life stocked pistols have never been terribly popular, suggesting that the benefits are slight.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
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07-31-2021, 07:10 AM | #62 |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Fatigue for Warriors
I will attempt to forestall somebody else from complaining about you ignoring millions of C96s (including copies). You might be able to say that stocked pistols don't compete very well with rifles.
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Fred Brackin |
07-31-2021, 10:05 AM | #63 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Fatigue for Warriors
And how many were used with their stocks? How many other pistols were outfitted with stocks? Some models, sure, but not many.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
07-31-2021, 12:19 PM | #64 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Fatigue for Warriors
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Do you think the rules for 1H firing of rifles still assume you're using the shoulder brace? In which case if someone is wielding it T-800 style they'd not only need 2x the strength to fire it without it getting unreadied, but still get the -1 to acc for not actually USING the shoulder stock (but it would still have full bulk since the stock is not removed/collapsed) It actually seems kinda strange how B270 works for “†” where if you have less than 1.5x the ST you can't attack with a 2H weapon at all? For 1H weapons ST is never actually a hard cap on usage, instead it's softcapped by -1 to skill per ST you're lacking. So what if we just applied the skill penalties that would result? IE with quarterstaff (B273) the ST 7 x 1.5 = 10.5 (rounds up to 11) to use it one handed. But if someone with only ST 10 wanted to wield it, you could just make them -1 to skill. Same idea w/ rifles. The only thing kinda hard-capped I wouldn't know how to tweak about this is automatic unreadying after each attack. To change that into a softcapped system I was thinking maybe something like ALL weapons become unready after attacking but you can do an automatic roll to re-ready them as a free action with progressive levels of difficulty based on what your ST is in relation to the weapon. Basically great place to apply the 'Retain Weapon' technique. If not 'automatic unreadying' then progressive loss of control over a weapon by spending control points you have on a weapon for each thing you do with it (attack or parry) but you can combine those stuff with a RW roll to restore the Grip Control Points that you spend. Could possible also work in the Recoil rules for ranged weapons too. |
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08-01-2021, 02:43 AM | #65 |
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Fatigue for Warriors
Stocked pistols were used a lot in Warlord-era China, partly because there was an arms embargo in 1919-29 that prevented the import of rifles but allowed pistols. That got the idea established. See "The Boxed Cannon" on p. 14 of High-Tech: Pulp Guns 1.
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The Path of Cunning. Indexes: DFRPG Characters, Advantage of the Week, Disadvantage of the Week, Skill of the Week, Techniques. |
08-01-2021, 07:46 AM | #66 |
Join Date: Dec 2020
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Re: Fatigue for Warriors
Depends actually you can buy kits that convert most pistols into a stocked version, mostly to go around weapon laws or problem with barrel length at close quarters. Pre WWII a lot of pistols had a bigger clip than most rifles and with a shorter barrel were sometimes the weapon of choice for trench warfare, if you couldnīt get a SMG. Some german WWI modells had the option to add a stock, not to mention the various kitchen sink build made up in field workshops in the WWI.
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08-01-2021, 10:49 AM | #67 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: Fatigue for Warriors
Quote:
Edit: here is a thread with a link to data on one of the Chinese models of stocked pistols (an enlarged Browning Mle 1900)
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"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature Last edited by Polydamas; 08-01-2021 at 09:46 PM. |
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08-01-2021, 02:11 PM | #68 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: Fatigue for Warriors
It would be absurd for long guns to get the Bracing bonus just because they are supported with both hands, and p. B346 explicitly forbids it ("If you brace a firearm or crossbow, you get an extra +1 to Acc. A firearm or crossbow is braced if you can rest it on a sandbag, low wall, car, etc. A one-handed firearm (e.g., a pistol) is considered braced if used two-handed. A two-handed firearm (e.g., a rifle) is considered braced if you are prone and using a bipod.") but I might allow a stocked pistol to claim the bonus if it is braced on a solid object. I have never shot one, and the ergonomics are supposed to be not great, but it would make a stocked pistol more accurate than a stockless pistol gripped with both hands, braced over the opposite elbow, etc.
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"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature |
08-01-2021, 02:30 PM | #69 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: Fatigue for Warriors
Quote:
For black-powder muzzle-loaders, the same advantages apply, but Acc 2-3 for the long guns and Acc 1 for the handguns (and a smaller difference in 1/2 D range and damage).
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"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature |
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08-02-2021, 07:08 AM | #70 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Fatigue for Warriors
Quote:
Of course, maybe we should take this discussion to a different thread? It's a tangent of a tangent, and pretty much wholly removed from the actual thread topic.
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GURPS Overhaul |
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