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Old 04-06-2017, 12:26 PM   #1
kdtipa
 
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Default [Rules] Feverish Defense Clarification

I tried a search of the forum, but the first 50 threads didn't seem to be what I'm looking for. The Feverish Defense rule as written on page 357 of the basic set:

Quote:
Feverish Defense: If you take any maneuver other than All-Out Attack, you can spend 1 FP to get +2 to a single active defense roll. (You can use this bonus to offset the penalty for parrying multiple times with one hand: see Parrying, p. 376.)
I'm not certain I know what the limitations are based on the definition, and I have two questions...
Question 1: Can you spend this fatigue point more than once per round (between your turns for the sticklers), to bolster more than one of your active defenses?

Question 2: Can you spend multiple fatigue to bolster your one time defense by more than 2 (like spending three fatigue to get a +6)?
The part of the definition that tells you that you can spend 1 FP to get a +2 to a single active defense roll is unclear to me. I get that when you spend 1 FP, a single defense gets a +2 bonus, but it doesn't say you can only spend 1 FP in a round. If I have a fencer that only has a -2 per additional parry, and he is trying to parry four incoming attacks, the first one is at no penalty. The second one is at -2, and he could spend a point of fatigue to make his second parry as likely as the first. Can he spend another point of fatigue on the third parry to reduce its penalty to -2 from -4? Can he spend two fatigue to reduce the penalty from -4 to 0? And how about on the fourth incoming attack?

The part in parentheses seems to imply at least that you CAN use the feverish defense to help with additional defenses. I understand the word "single" in the definition to be making sure the reader understands that 1 FP doesn't improve all your defenses that round. And no part of the definition mentions spending more fatigue for even more of a bonus.

So I'm not sure. Anyone have thoughts on this?

Last edited by kdtipa; 04-06-2017 at 12:27 PM. Reason: typo correction
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Old 04-06-2017, 12:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: [Rules] Feverish Defense Clarification

To clarify what I would guess...
Question 1: I would guess that "yes", you can choose to tire yourself out faster, and give a +2 to more than one defense in a round.

Question 2: I would guess that "no", you can't bolster one defense more than +2 with Feverish Defense.
I'm not sure I can explain why I think that way. And I'm definitely open to understanding other interpretations. I just figured I'd share what I was thinking.
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Old 04-06-2017, 12:59 PM   #3
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: [Rules] Feverish Defense Clarification

According to the Basic Set (p. B357), you spend the FP "before you make your attack or defense roll." (Emphasis in original). I read that as saying the FP expenditure for defenses isn't tied to your turn order - it happens just as you defend, you don't need to declare it on your turn or something. And there's nothing saying that you can't do so more than once, so I assume you can. So the answer to your first question is, yes, if you have the FP, you can spend it on each defense you make to boost it.

For the second question, it's a bit less clear from the text, but I'd say that no, you can't normally spend more than 1 FP on the Extra Effort in Combat options. However, I'd probably allow an Unusual Background, "Godlike Physical Effort", that replicated the rules for Godlike Extra Effort in Powers (p. 161) for physical feats - essentially, allowing you to spend extra FP and multiplying the Extra Effort bonus by the number of FP spent. I'd eyeball the Unusual Background cost at 5 points for one specific Extra Effort option, or 10 points for all such options.
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Old 04-06-2017, 01:12 PM   #4
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Default Re: [Rules] Feverish Defense Clarification

Pedant: Not between your turns...because there is no between your turns. Your turn starts when you choose a maneuver and ends when you choose a new maneuver...there is never a moment when you are not "in a turn"...this is important.

So, MA131 says of Extra Effort:
Quote:
"You may use no more than one offensive option (Flurry of Blows, Giant Step, Great Lunge, Heroic Charge, or Mighty Blows) and one defensive option (Feverish Defense or Rapid Recovery) per turn."
So...only one Offensive and one Defensive option per turn.

oFAQ on Extra Effort here: http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/faq/FAQ4-3.html#SS3.4.1.2

Says:
Quote:
Can I combine the various forms of Extra Effort in combat, or with an AoA?

No. As per MA, you can only use one offensive and one defensive option, and they don't stack with other powerful combat bonuses. Specifically, you can't combine All-Out Attack and Mighty Blows, and you must pay 1 FP per attack you wish to improve!
So what does this tell us? It says that if you choose Feverish Defense as your defensive option, then yes you can use it multiple times on your turn...in other words, if you defend three times, you can burn 3 FP for three Feverish Defenses. So that is for Question 1.

As for Question 2? No way.
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Old 04-06-2017, 07:50 PM   #5
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Default Re: [Rules] Feverish Defense Clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper6 View Post
...if you choose Feverish Defense as your defensive option, then yes you can use it multiple times on your turn...in other words, if you defend three times, you can burn 3 FP for three Feverish Defenses. So that is for Question 1.

As for Question 2? No way.
I am entertained that you gave citation and reference to other sources to back up the answer to the first question, and then just said "no" for the second question. :)
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:31 AM   #6
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Default Re: [Rules] Feverish Defense Clarification

I would encourage you to run a session under your interpretation of the rules and then decide whether you would like to keep them in play. Personally I dislike Extra Effort but understand its purpose in giving PC's and skilled opponents a little bit of Plot Armour -- too much Plot Armour is boring though and no offense meant, but I would not in a million years use your interpretations myself.

What I imagine that you will see with 2 is players deciding to always pump their defenses to 12-ish unless they are absolutely sure that they can tank the shot. Feints, Ripostes, Deceptive Attacks and multiple attacks become slightly less effective at tearing down their defenses and critical hits slightly more. Effects that bypass Active Defenses (Spells, surprise etc.) are more required if you want a challenge. Combat is most interesting when there is some risk involved, and I think that you will lose a lot of that.

With 1, I don't know why you'd want to give multiple uses/turn. I have always used the interpretation that you get one defense option on one of your defenses, per turn. 'Retreating Feverish and/or Acrobatic Dodge' has been the bane of my existence but at least I have the comfort there that the player is burning all of their defense boosts for the turn if they opt for that.

The Cleric might feel a bit miffed if the Wizard with Recover Energy-20, Lend Energy and some Paut is more useful in post-combat healing than them, too. :-)

Expy

Last edited by Expy; 04-07-2017 at 02:40 AM.
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Old 04-07-2017, 05:47 AM   #7
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Default Re: [Rules] Feverish Defense Clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdtipa View Post
I am entertained that you gave citation and reference to other sources to back up the answer to the first question, and then just said "no" for the second question. :)
The basic rule is clear in that you spend 1FP and get +2, not +2 for each FP.

But if you are using the Godlike Extra Effort and/or Trading Fatigue for Skill rules (Powers 161), allowing multiple FP for multiple effect might make a reasonable houserule in the same vein. But the same "Handle with care!" definitely applies in that case.
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Old 04-07-2017, 07:59 AM   #8
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Default Re: [Rules] Feverish Defense Clarification

My interpretation of the relevant rules results in answers:

1. No. It says you can spend 1 FP for +2 on a single defense. Not anything else.

2. No. See above.
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Old 04-07-2017, 08:24 AM   #9
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Default Re: [Rules] Feverish Defense Clarification

Way I see it, you're about right.
1) you can spend FP per defence for that +2, you just got to declare and spend the FP before rolling. Nothing seems to specify any limit on using it once per turn, only that you need to spend FP.
2) No, I wouldn't let a player spend extra FP to avoid an attack in the same way I wouldn't let one spend more than 1 FP to increase the damage from a Mighty Blow, the results would be completely bizarre. Also, pretty sure it says something more like "spend 1 FP for a +2" rather than "Gain a +2 to defence for every 1 FP spent."
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Old 04-07-2017, 08:53 AM   #10
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Default Re: [Rules] Feverish Defense Clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper6 View Post
So what does this tell us? It says that if you choose Feverish Defense as your defensive option, then yes you can use it multiple times on your turn...in other words, if you defend three times, you can burn 3 FP for three Feverish Defenses. So that is for Question 1.
No, that doesn't tell you that!

That Mighty Blows and Flurry of Blows cost per attack enhanced is part of the text on BS357. There's no analogous text for Feverish Defense, and nothing in Basic or the FAQ quote tells you that you can use your one option repeatedly.

To be fair, though, there's nothing in either of those places that says you can't either.
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