Casting time of missile spell scrolls

[ArchonShiva]

If I buy a charged scroll of fireball (6FP), for $120, what is casting time for it? 2 seconds? (Magery 6) 4 seconds? (Magery 3) 12 seconds? (Magery 1)

What about an 18d scroll? Can a scroll of fireball 24d even be made?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

If I buy a charged scroll of fireball (6FP), for $120, what is casting time for it? 2 seconds? (Magery 6) 4 seconds? (Magery 3) 12 seconds? (Magery 1)

What about an 18d scroll? Can a scroll of fireball 24d even be made?

The obvious answer is "based on your Magery". For universal charged scrolls that's probably the minimum Magery needed to cast the spell at all.

Although I am not sure that enlarging it should take doubled time, since that isn't casting.

[ArchonShiva]

Scrolls probably aren’t based on your Magery because they don’t have Magery requirements. Would you say some scrolls take longer for some casters? That you could conceivably enlarge an 18d missile for more than three seconds if you have Magery 1? That’d be an entirely new rule, no?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

Scrolls probably aren’t based on your Magery because they don’t have Magery requirements.

Wizardly scrolls do.

Casting an uncharged wizardry scroll of Fireball cleary uses your Magery level. So a charged wizardry scroll probably does too.

An uncharged universal scroll would need something to determine the amount you can put into it and the minimum makes the most sense and is consistent with other rules.

Charged scrolls probably should work the same way as the uncharged scrolls, since the only difference is that they include the cost.

Would you say some scrolls take longer for some casters? That you could conceivably enlarge an 18d missile for more than three seconds if you have Magery 1? That’d be an entirely new rule, no?

Enlarging isn't casting, you cast a missile spell in your hand (that's when you roll) and then optionally enlarge it for up to two additional turns). So casting would take the same time regardless (two seconds with a scroll).

[ArchonShiva]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Wizardly scrolls do.

Casting an uncharged wizardry scroll of Fireball cleary uses your Magery level. So a charged wizardry scroll probably does too.

An uncharged universal scroll would need something to determine the amount you can put into it and the minimum makes the most sense and is consistent with other rules.

Charged scrolls probably should work the same way as the uncharged scrolls, since the only difference is that they include the cost.

Enlarging isn't casting, you cast a missile spell in your hand (that's when you roll) and then optionally enlarge it for up to two additional turns). So casting would take the same time regardless (two seconds with a scroll).

Since casting isn't enlarging, I would say that charged scrolls can only be for 1-3 or 2-6 for explosive missiles.

Magery 1, 18 FP scroll of fireball (18d damage). Cast for two seconds, get 1d missile. Then you need to enlarge it for 17 seconds, no? (charged or not, your answer may differ)

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

Magery 1, 18 FP scroll of fireball (18d damage). Cast for two seconds, get 1d missile. Then you need to enlarge it for 17 seconds, no? (charged or not, your answer may differ)

You can't enlarge it for 17 turns, that's not how missile spells work.

[sir_pudding]

So to get back to the OP

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

If I buy a charged scroll of fireball (6FP), for $120, what is casting time for it? 2 seconds? (Magery 6) 4 seconds? (Magery 3) 12 seconds? (Magery 1)

Two seconds to cast. It is normally one and scrolls double casting time.

What about an 18d scroll? Can a scroll of fireball 24d even be made?

Magery maxes at six, so neither of these are things.

[ArchonShiva]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Magery maxes at six, so neither of these are things.

Three seconds of Magery 6 sounds like an 18d fireball to me... What fireball size do *you* get?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

Three seconds of Magery 6 sounds like an 18d fireball to me... What fireball size do *you* get?

That's one second to cast and optionally up to two seconds (not four or seventeen!) to enlarge. You roll at the end of the first second. Charged scrolls specifically cover the casting costs, and the scroll dissappears after you cast anyway.

[Tom H.]

What an interesting topic.

ArchonShiva is getting really good at poking some of the nuances in the system.

And I really agree with most of the interpretation that SirPudding has provided.

This was one of those brain teasers that got me thinking.

I actually think this situation would benefit from an official ruling.

So just to clarify:

The issue at stake seems to really be a distinction with missile spells between the casting and the enlarging.

My opinion:

The casting of the missile spell should govern the initial enlargement. This would rely on the scroll enchanter's magery level (or spell casting talent) for the initial "power/size/effect" of the missile charge.

As per Exploits, pg. 76, the scroll would specify the magery level that the enchanter would actually allow in the spell.

After that, I would assume that the scroll reader is on his own with the following two enlargements drawing from only his own magery level (spell casting talent).

Example:
A level 2 mage casts fireball from a scroll specifying a 6d damage missile enchanted by a level 6 mage.
The maximum strength of the fireball using all enlargement actions would be 10d damage (6d + 2d + 2d).
Now . . . try not to miss!


Okay, now somebody please stop me (although I'm sure ArchonShiva would appreciate this.)

I don't recommend this, but is it logical that a scroll could be created solely for enlarging a missile? Of course, you would complicate enlarging time limits (getting the scroll out and reading it before you run out of your two allotted enlargement seconds). The point of this thought exercise is to define exactly what an enlarging action is. It's in that gray twilight zone between casting a spell and manipulating it, especially for the initial enlargement.