My thoughts on Staves

[Icelander]

No, nothing to do with poetry.

Weapons used with the Staff skill are very useful, in that they are versatile in terms of Reach and some of them get a nifty little +2 to Parry. They also have very low MinST, which provides them with more nifty little bonuses if using A Matter of Inches rules on MA p. 110.

This is all realistic. These weapon really are versatile, are held and used in such a way as to require less ST than other weapons of similar heft and a trained man can use them very effectively to parry.

I have two minor quibbles with them, though. As it is, the Jo, Quarterstaff, Quin Kun Ri Yue Dao; Long Staff and all Spears are balanced enough to qualify for a full +2 bonus to Parry. Other weapons used with Staff qualify for exactly zilch in their Parry score. Apparently, adding a spearhead, even a Heavy Spear spearhead, has no effect on the Parry score, but adding any Polearm head drops it from +2 to +0.

Obviously, it would be better to have an intermediate step here. In my games, I allow all Polearm weapons used with Staff a +1 to their Parry score (of course, this is irrelevant when being used in a manner which has Parry U). I also treat the Heavy Spear as a Polearm for this purpose, given that it is as heavy as the Duelling Bill, for example.

The other thing that bothers me is damage. Yes, it is possible to strike heavy blows with a staff. But it seems to me that when it is used that way, it is either swung like a Two-Handed Sword, thrust at full extension like a two-handed Spear or held in a Reverse Grip for a powerful downward thrust. All of those are already allowed in the rules and it seems to me that a Quarterstaff held like a staff should strike with less power than one swung like a Two-Handed Sword.

So I reduce the damage of all weapons used with Staff* to thr+1 cr and sw+1 cr. That way, if a character wants to make a powerful swing, he has to use Two-Handed Sword skill for it and if he wants to thrust for thr+2 damage, he needs to use Spear skill or Reverse Grip.

Does the hive mind believe that I'm totally off here?

*Except the Qui Kun Ri Yue Dao, which already includes such a reduction and the Jo which is already at this damage.

[Verjigorm]

I like this, honestly.

[Flyndaran]

I always thought that gurps made it always stupid to ever use a two-handed grip for a staff. Your rule makes it useful.

I like it.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I always thought that gurps made it always stupid to ever use a two-handed grip for a staff. Your rule makes it useful.

I like it.

That's part of the reason I thought of it. As it was, there was absolutely no reason to ever learn Two-Handed Sword skill for use with a Bo, but real martial arts styles do teach it.

[Lorka]

Makes sense to me, but maybe you should go the other way and grant a +1 bonus damage to Two-Handed Sword skill swing - but either way makes more sense to me.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Lorka

Makes sense to me, but maybe you should go the other way and grant a +1 bonus damage to Two-Handed Sword skill swing - but either way makes more sense to me.

I thought of that, but then realised that this would make swung staves better weapons than many purpose built weapons swung with both hands (blunt swords, for example).

I don't much want that.

As it was, staves were somewhat over-powered. This way, characters can benefit from the same statistics as before, it will just demand that they train in more skills and use Perks like Form and Grip Mastery.

The staff master will still be equally deadly, but it is no longer enough to just drop a few points into staff to be able to use it like the greatest martial arts masters.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Icelander

That's part of the reason I thought of it. As it was, there was absolutely no reason to ever learn Two-Handed Sword skill for use with a Bo, but real martial arts styles do teach it.

Doesn't that grip provide extra reach?

[DanHoward]

I like it too. Staves are currently over powered. If the staff was as useful historically as it is in GURPS then you would see many, many more of them on battlefields. These revisions make staves more realistic compared to other weapons IMO.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Doesn't that grip provide extra reach?

Nope, the Staff grip in GURPS gives equal Reach and equal damage in the RAW.

[CrimsonDawn]

Originally Posted by Icelander

So I reduce the damage of all weapons used with Staff* to thr+1 cr and sw+1 cr. That way, if a character wants to make a powerful swing, he has to use Two-Handed Sword skill for it and if he wants to thrust for thr+2 damage, he needs to use Spear skill or Reverse Grip.

Does the hive mind believe that I'm totally off here?

I'm using the rule for swings already, never thought about the spear grip - though I'll be using that, too!