[DF] Vampire Bite Attack

[b-dog]

I like vampires but in DF their bite is pretty puny damage wise compared to what other monsters can do. In D&D vampires drained levels which was pretty severe but sort of illogical and unfair. So I have thought of a better way IMO to make vampires (and other undead) more feared. Instead of the vampire draining Hit Points he instead drains actual HT. This affects his future HT rolls for other HT rolls as well until it has been healed back. This would mean that a PC bitten by a vampire would be very weak until he has had time to heal or had some sort of magic to restore his HT attribute. Healing HT should be much more difficult than healing Hit Points I would think.

[Stone Dog]

See if you can't lay your hands on GURPS Horror. It is a great book about things that go bump in the night and why things have been traditionally scary.

Vampires and Nosferatu fall under two categories; fear of taint and fear of disease.

It never actually matters how fearsome of an injury a vampire's bite can cause. The fear and the horror of it come with what the bite does to you ASIDE from the hit point damage.

The bite can make you a slave, turn your mind into an animal, make your body begin to rot, infect you with any number of pestilent diseases and possibly even corrupt you enough to make you Excommunicated. Any of those things could be much more horrifying than Leech: HT.

For the most part, a vampire doesn't even bite you in combat! A vampire incapacitates you, then drains your blood at leisure. If a vampire has its fangs in you, it is already too late to fight.

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by b-dog

I like vampires but in DF their bite is pretty puny damage wise compared to what other monsters can do. In D&D vampires drained levels which was pretty severe but sort of illogical and unfair. So I have thought of a better way IMO to make vampires (and other undead) more feared. Instead of the vampire draining Hit Points he instead drains actual HT. This affects his future HT rolls for other HT rolls as well until it has been healed back. This would mean that a PC bitten by a vampire would be very weak until he has had time to heal or had some sort of magic to restore his HT attribute. Healing HT should be much more difficult than healing Hit Points I would think.

If you statted up a HT-draining ability, it'd have to be via a Cumulative Affliction HT penalty (presumably with some Extended Duration)... or Leech. Leech is a bad choice because it handles attribute draining more like a kind of injury than like an Affliction, with the lost attributes (in this case, HT) healing at the same rate as one's fatigue regeneration rate (for many, this will be 1 FP per 10 min), which isn't all that frightening.

On the other hand, if they're NPCs you could define their abilities as you desire. I, for one, like your idea of an HT drain to represent scarier vampires. In D&D you'd actually need to earn enough XP to regain the lost level(s). I suppose you could have the PC have to buy back up their HT, maybe at a discount rather than the full [10] which might be harsh.

Alternatively, maybe the vampire drains off the maximum HP or FP, instead of HT. That'd also make it mighty scary, inflicting a kind of injury that makes future injuries more dangerous until the lost max HP or FP is recovered (perhaps via spending points, use of a spell, or a special condition).

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

If you statted up a HT-draining ability, it'd have to be via a Cumulative Affliction HT penalty (presumably with some Extended Duration)... or Leech. Leech is a bad choice because it handles attribute draining more like a kind of injury than like an Affliction, with the lost attributes (in this case, HT) healing at the same rate as one's fatigue regeneration rate (for many, this will be 1 FP per 10 min), which isn't all that frightening.

On the other hand, if they're NPCs you could define their abilities as you desire. I, for one, like your idea of an HT drain to represent scarier vampires. In D&D you'd actually need to earn enough XP to regain the lost level(s). I suppose you could have the PC have to buy back up their HT, maybe at a discount rather than the full [10] which might be harsh.

Alternatively, maybe the vampire drains off the maximum HP or FP, instead of HT. That'd also make it mighty scary, inflicting a kind of injury that makes future injuries more dangerous until the lost max HP or FP is recovered (perhaps via spending points, use of a spell, or a special condition).

Having to buy back HT points seems like it would make the vampire very scary and sort of reflect how victims of vampires are in movies as they usually remain in bed sickly. I think the other thing that vampires would need would be a grapple attack in order for them to be able to bite their victim in DF.

[b-dog]

In a dark hallway a nosferatu vampire could use stealth to sneak up behind the last party member and then do a surprise bite attack. Or a vampire lord could command zombies to attack the PCs and keep them occupied until he can strike a weakened PC. But those PCs bitten by the vampire would be very unhappy and would remember that encounter for some time as they would be permanently weakened until they acquire enough points to buy back their missing HT. This kind of vampire is comparable to an AD&D level drain vampire. I like it and thanks for the suggestion about making the PCs have to spend cps to buy back their HT.

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by b-dog

Having to buy back HT points seems like it would make the vampire very scary and sort of reflect how victims of vampires are in movies as they usually remain in bed sickly.

Yeah, that is a commom trope of vampire fiction...

One possibility to simulate it more thoroughly is to allow a special case of the Time Spent Studying rules, where 200 hours of living a deeply restful life equates to a character point for use in "training" / "studying" buying back up the lost HT (but not for anything else, and not towards more HT than you began with), with tweaks upwards and downwards such that a dedicated healer, medicine man, nurse, or doctor counts as "training" with a formal "trainer", dedicated bed rest and good nutrition counts as full "training", and just "taking it easy" counts as the lesser rate of "on the job training".

That way some people (mostly NPCs probably) could just recover after several weeks of bed rest, but technically anyone could spend (or earn towards spending) character points to recover the lost HT as well.

[vierasmarius]

For a scary, long-duration HT-draining attack, how do folks feel about applying Permanent +150% to Leech HT? This gives an attack that requires grappling-level contact, and drains HT which can only be recovered by external means (magic, Exotic Medicine, etc). I know that Leech is sometimes considered to be more a damage-dealing power than an afflicting power, so Permanent may not be appropriate for it. But the other aspects of it (the contact required, the attacker gaining power from it, etc) match Leech better than any other advantage.

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

Yeah, that is a commom trope of vampire fiction...

One possibility to simulate it more thoroughly is to allow a special case of the Time Spent Studying rules, where 200 hours of living a deeply restful life equates to a character point for use in "training" / "studying" buying back up the lost HT (but not for anything else, and not towards more HT than you began with), with tweaks upwards and downwards such that a dedicated healer, medicine man, nurse, or doctor counts as "training" with a formal "trainer", dedicated bed rest and good nutrition counts as full "training", and just "taking it easy" counts as the lesser rate of "on the job training".

That way some people (mostly NPCs probably) could just recover after several weeks of bed rest, but technically anyone could spend (or earn towards spending) character points to recover the lost HT as well.

That could work as well. I might even include a penalty to Will rolls equal to the amount of HT that is lost. That way if a party has a PC who has been bitten but not dead then that PC is much easier for the vampire to control. Of course when the bitten PC is under the vampire's control his HT is restored to the original until the vampire loses control of the bitten PC. So when a cleric uses exorcism to remove the vampire's mind control the PC will revert back to his sickly state but while under control of the vampire the PC is as healthy as normal...and maybe he could also be unnaturally healthy and strong while serving his master?

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

For a scary, long-duration HT-draining attack, how do folks feel about applying Permanent +150% to Leech HT? This gives an attack that requires grappling-level contact, and drains HT which can only be recovered by external means (magic, Exotic Medicine, etc). I know that Leech is sometimes considered to be more a damage-dealing power than an afflicting power, so Permanent may not be appropriate for it. But the other aspects of it (the contact required, the attacker gaining power from it, etc) match Leech better than any other advantage.

Permanent might work, at least for a DF monster write-up. I do like the idea that there is no magic potion or spell that can heal the PC's HT, he has to instead acquire character points in order to buy back his HT just like an AD&D PC would have to gain another level to offset the one he lost. As for the NPCs that get bit and are not adventures well maybe that is just too bad. In vampire stories those who were bitten by vampires are often sickly for life.

I would also like to extend this to other undead and demons as well. Succubi might cause permanent HT loss as well and the tail strike of Demogorgon would likely permanently strike the life out of PCs as well.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by b-dog

Permanent might work, at least for a DF monster write-up. I do like the idea that there is no magic potion or spell that can heal the PC's HT, he has to instead acquire character points in order to buy back his HT just like an AD&D PC would have to gain another level to offset the one he lost. As for the NPCs that get bit and are not adventures well maybe that is just too bad. In vampire stories those who were bitten by vampires are often sickly for life.

Well, I wasn't picturing "Permanent" in the sense of "gone for good - spend CP" but more along the lines of "Lasting - recover using powerful magic or months of administered treatment". But then, I don't like inflicting conditions on PCs which reduce their point totals, so I'm probably too lenient to judge this one.

I would also like to extend this to other undead and demons as well. Succubi might cause permanent HT loss as well and the tail strike of Demogorgon would likely permanently strike the life out of PCs as well.

Sure. Though I could easily see a Succubus sapping Will instead (leaving a mindless - but virile - husk) or afflicting disadvantages like Lecherousness.