Evaluate maneuvers before combat

[tfaal]

I was wondering if you could use Evaluate maneuvers before combat begins, and if so, whether this would be obvious to others. If I'm a disguised assassin speaking with my target, can I evaluate in preparation for an unarmed attack, and would this give me any penalties to Acting rolls?

[Figleaf23]

Combat maneuvres are possible only in combat-time. But if you are concealed or otherwise the only person aware that combat-time has begun, you could use your first maneuvre options to Evaluate, effectively 'before combat begins'.

[Refplace]

I would allow it but limit the circumstances. If your foe is relaxed and not in a combat stance or with weapon ready it seems like you wont get much if any benefit.

[mhd]

Wouldn't that be more like "I see he's a trained fighter, doesn't move to fast though" instead of detailed combat style and condition analysis, i.e. more giving you an idea about his general stats than giving you a bonus to your next action?

[Veton]

Martial Arts has an option for attacks that give a +4 bonus but a +2 bonus to the defender (I can't remember what it's called off the top of my head). It's obviously useful for when they can't get a defense roll, but it doesn't stack with Evaluate.

If you don't use that rule, then yes you can Evaluate. You've begun combat, even if the other person doesn't know it yet. However, as per Evaluate rules, you need to be able to reach and attack them in one round while maintaining the bonus.

[Seneschal]

Originally Posted by mhd

Wouldn't that be more like "I see he's a trained fighter, doesn't move to fast though" instead of detailed combat style and condition analysis, i.e. more giving you an idea about his general stats than giving you a bonus to your next action?

Yeah, I'd allow maybe a +1 for having observed someone from stealth for a while, but you can't really tell much about a person's fighting style unless you're actually watching them fight, no?

Besides, Evaluate (according to, if I remember correctly, GURPS Martial Arts) also reduces the penalty to defence you get from enemy Feints (as in, you're studying them well enough to notice their attack was a bluff), so it definitely has a movement/skill aspect to it, not merely observing how an enemy looks like.

[tfaal]

Originally Posted by Veton

Martial Arts has an option for attacks that give a +4 bonus but a +2 bonus to the defender (I can't remember what it's called off the top of my head). It's obviously useful for when they can't get a defense roll, but it doesn't stack with Evaluate.

If you don't use that rule, then yes you can Evaluate. You've begun combat, even if the other person doesn't know it yet. However, as per Evaluate rules, you need to be able to reach and attack them in one round while maintaining the bonus.

That's a Telegraphic Attack, if I recall correctly. I do like that rule, but it's less ideal for a visible, disguised attacker, since the victim would still get an active defense to receive the bonus. Upon reviewing the Basic Set combat section, I'm leaning toward a pro-evaluate ruling, since by evaluating you've begun "maneuvering for tactical advantage".

[BaHalus]

Originally Posted by tfaal

I was wondering if you could use Evaluate maneuvers before combat begins, and if so, whether this would be obvious to others. If I'm a disguised assassin speaking with my target, can I evaluate in preparation for an unarmed attack, and would this give me any penalties to Acting rolls?

not sure. I think I would allow a stealth roll for that.

[Rasputin]

Per RAW, you need to be within one Move and Attack maneuver of your foe to be able to use an Evaluate maneuver against him. Really, I can't see how this would work unless you're right behind him and he has no idea whatsoever, since a Move and Attack is such a clumsy attack, so only in very limited circumstances.

[tfaal]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

Per RAW, you need to be within one Move and Attack maneuver of your foe to be able to use an Evaluate maneuver against him. Really, I can't see how this would work unless you're right behind him and he has no idea whatsoever, since a Move and Attack is such a clumsy attack, so only in very limited circumstances.

My initial example involved disguise. Thus, you're opponent is aware of you, but not aware that he is in combat.