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Old 12-25-2021, 07:19 PM   #1
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Default Big shock setting change (basically discussing a campaign idea)

The big shock setting change idea is that the USA is discovered to have had a functional Alcubierre Drive for more than a decade. The Alcubierre Drive is chosen because it doesn't violate Relativity.

A European reporter will have broken the story. After a period of denial by the USA and charges of "conspiracy theory" the story is proved. Moreover, proof that the USA has extra-solar colonies also comes out.

My first assumption is that the other major planetary governments will demand, both publicly and by the back door, the details of the drives and a share of the colonies. The USA would stonewall of course.

My second assumption would be conspiracy nuts and fringe types would go wild. As Fry once said on Futurama, "Insane theories one, sane theories one billion!"

Scoring such a major victory. The nutcases would demand the world obey them.

What would you see as a likely outcome? And how would you see the situation develop?
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Old 12-25-2021, 07:51 PM   #2
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Default Re: Big shock setting change (basically discussing a campaign idea)

I don't see why you assume either that the US would have kept the discovery secret or that they would stonewall about sharing it. That comes across more as "I'm a pulp supervillain and this is my master plan!" than as a clear motivation.

It seems kind of trite to have it be the US that makes the discovery. I'll stipulate that it probably wouldn't be Europe, and that the Transpacific Socialist Alliance probably wouldn't have kept it secret. But why not have it be India, or Brazil, or the other Pacific alliance that includes Japan, Korea, and Australia? Or even Silas Duncan Station on Ceres?
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Old 12-26-2021, 03:04 PM   #3
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Default Re: Big shock setting change (basically discussing a campaign idea)

Whether or not the initial discovers can be compelled to share the details, the fact that it has been confirmed to be possible means that the breakthrough is rapidly duplicated elsewhere as the brightest minds in the field flock to the problem backed by unlimited resources.

As far as I am aware, the physics behind the Alcubierre does nothing to bypass the fact that, in a universe bound by the laws of relativity, the ability to travel faster than light can inevitably be used to travel backward in time by playing around with frames of reference. This threatens to open a very big can of worms, which can either be addressed or swept under the rug (either with technobabble or just by agreeing to ignore it) depending on how you want the campaign to go.
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Old 12-26-2021, 04:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: Big shock setting change (basically discussing a campaign idea)

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Whether or not the initial discovers can be compelled to share the details, the fact that it has been confirmed to be possible means that the breakthrough is rapidly duplicated elsewhere as the brightest minds in the field flock to the problem backed by unlimited resources.

As far as I am aware, the physics behind the Alcubierre does nothing to bypass the fact that, in a universe bound by the laws of relativity, the ability to travel faster than light can inevitably be used to travel backward in time by playing around with frames of reference. This threatens to open a very big can of worms, which can either be addressed or swept under the rug (either with technobabble or just by agreeing to ignore it) depending on how you want the campaign to go.
I intend to use technobabable. In order for the Alcubierre Warp to be stable, measures must be taken that prevent the possibility of backwards time travel. In fact, without the stabilization, you'd get random uncontrollable time travel.
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Old 12-27-2021, 11:17 AM   #5
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Default Re: Big shock setting change (basically discussing a campaign idea)

A further question is how the United States was able to keep other powers from noticing the colony ships disappearing when they zoomed off- or is the technology capable of launching straight to "warp speed" from planet-side installations?
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Old 12-27-2021, 02:10 PM   #6
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Default Re: Big shock setting change (basically discussing a campaign idea)

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A further question is how the United States was able to keep other powers from noticing the colony ships disappearing when they zoomed off- or is the technology capable of launching straight to "warp speed" from planet-side installations?
First off the Deep Beyond is incredibly vast. Secondly, no one was looking.

Now that they are looking and have an idea what to look for, it's a different game.
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Old 12-31-2021, 09:37 PM   #7
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Default Re: Big shock setting change (basically discussing a campaign idea)

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In order for the Alcubierre Warp to be stable, measures must be taken that prevent the possibility of backwards time travel.
Anything that is FTL travel according to any inertial frame of reference is already travel backwards in time according to other, equally valid, frames of reference.

The reason that Alcubierre warps do not produce closed timelike paths is that their interiors are causally disconnected from the rest of spacetime. Nothing that was ever outside can get inside, and nothing that was ever inside can get outside, ever.
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Old 12-31-2021, 11:58 PM   #8
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The reason that Alcubierre warps do not produce closed timelike paths is that their interiors are causally disconnected from the rest of spacetime. Nothing that was ever outside can get inside, and nothing that was ever inside can get outside, ever.
So it's useless? 🤔
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Old 12-26-2021, 04:06 PM   #9
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I don't see why you assume either that the US would have kept the discovery secret or that they would stonewall about sharing it. That comes across more as "I'm a pulp supervillain and this is my master plan!" than as a clear motivation.

It seems kind of trite to have it be the US that makes the discovery. I'll stipulate that it probably wouldn't be Europe, and that the Transpacific Socialist Alliance probably wouldn't have kept it secret. But why not have it be India, or Brazil, or the other Pacific alliance that includes Japan, Korea, and Australia? Or even Silas Duncan Station on Ceres?
The choice of the USA comes from the fact that conspiracy hounds tend to focus on the USA. Example: The confirmed murders committed by the KGB and its pawns and successors outnumber the murders RUMORED to have been communicated by the CIA by a factor of ten. But the CIA is widely held to be a far greater evil in conspiracy circles. Hey, reputable scholars (the question of whether they earned a good reputation we will leave for another day and venue) treat the CIA as a far greater threat than the KGB. Having the USA do something real that freaks out the conspiracy mavens just has more punch.
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Old 12-30-2021, 09:23 AM   #10
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Default Re: Big shock setting change (basically discussing a campaign idea)

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
It seems kind of trite to have it be the US that makes the discovery. I'll stipulate that it probably wouldn't be Europe, and that the Transpacific Socialist Alliance probably wouldn't have kept it secret. But why not have it be India, or Brazil, or the other Pacific alliance that includes Japan, Korea, and Australia? Or even Silas Duncan Station on Ceres?
I agree with this sentiment. To add: I think the reason the USA is the center of conspiracy theories is because it's the last superpower. We have our fingers in everything. The CIA may not murder as many people as the KGB, but considering the history of regime change, the USA is likely responsible for far more turmoil and death. Even if this assumption turn out to be wrong, I think it's a reasonable one for a lot of people - especially people already opposed to US imperialism - to make.

Meanwhile, Transhuman Space assumes that the old powers are waning and new powers are rising. The setting is about radical change, geopolitics included. The United States of 2100 is no longer the sole superpower, and might not even be a super-power at all anymore. To me it both makes more sense and is more narratively interesting to let somebody else have this one.

Also, to prevent sidetracking this into a political argument, I would like to remind everyone of 112434 Shezbeth and its many conspiracy theories, one of my favorite parts of the setting which seems to line up pretty well with this idea. A primordial black hole embedded in a hunk of rock drifting in the Kuiper Belt. Discovered in 2282 by Dr. Shiyomi Muldoon of the TSA's Chatarang Space University, Muldoon launched an expedition to the object consisting of the "antique deep space operations vehicle Alan B. Shepherd, donated by eccentric billionaire David Mbengi." The crew, meanwhile, was composed entirely of ghosts and sapient AIs provided by a three Christian hyperevolutionist ministers from the L5 Seventh Heaven colony, while mining equipment and fuel was donated by Vosper-Babbage.

Some doubt Muldoon was really the one to discover Shezbeth, but the destruction of Chatarang Space University during the Pacific War wiped out all the data (and witnesses) of her discovery. Some have pointed out that gamma ray emissions detected as early as 2020 could have lead the way to 112434 Shezbeth (Muldoon denies ever seeing this data).

Furthermore at least six other primordial black holes have since been discovered in the Oort cloud, far more than any cosmological theory can account for, while others doubt the the possibility of a mini black hole being captured by such an object altogether. Donations from aerospace corporations, eccentric billionaires, and religious figures, and an all-digital crew that can have their memories edited or deleted (which Hawking Industries thoroughly denies doing), is all certainly fishy as well.

So we have a private corporation, headed by a scientist whose credibility is in doubt, whose records (and witnesses!) were all conveniently wiped out, whose crew cannot be reliably questioned, and who has received generous donations from a collection of wealthy and powerful figures. This corporation is in possession of an object that, according to prevailing cosmological theories, is extremely unlikely to exist - and more have already been discovered! They move it to the inner system and set about using it for physics experiments and power as a gravitic fusion reactor.

CLEARLY this is a power plant provided by the aliens of 61 Virginis, who control Muldoon and her "business partners." Of course, everybody knows these Virginians have been running a human colony since 1950, and of course their ships are propelled by Alcubierre drives to make interstellar travel possible. Muldoon and sponsors both corporate and religious are working for the aliens, doing who knows what in their private asteroid laboratories.

Ridiculous conspiracy theories, obviously. Except - hold on, Vosper Babbage really does have an Alcubierre drive? Somebody survived the bombing of Chatarang Space University and says they have proof Muldoon faked her discovery? Silas Duncan Station picked up radio signals from 61 Virginis that turned out to be real actual humans living in a colony they call Virginia!?!? Good God! It's all true! Who else is in on this!?

I think 112434 Shezbeth and Hawking Industries is a better fit for this story. Really the only part missing from its existing conspiracy theories is the Alcubierre drive, and that jives well with an interstellar alien civilization helping to spread human colonies. To me, it also makes more sense to tie something like this to private entities rather than a state, both as a theme of Transhuman Space and the real world, with space set to be dominated by corporations and eccentric billionaires rather than governments. Rename the Alan B. Shepherd the Elon Musk and now we're REALLY cooking with gas!
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