Powers: Air control, Modeling Some Things Wind Does

[oneofmanynameless]

I've found myself struggling with how best to build certain Air-Control abilities. These ability concepts might be on the cinematic side, I'm not sure, but that's fine. My problem is what sort of mechanics end up working best for the effect, and what advantages (and modifiers) are best for accomplishing those mechanics.

The two abilities are:

1. A wind tunnel with strong enough winds to send lightweight targets flying or impede the movement (against the winds) of larger targets. Preferably scales based on the targets strength. A persistent no wounding double knockback crushing attack with cone or aoe or something seems like it would do the trick, but mechanically I'm not sure I like the "Run forward then get knocked back" vibe of it and am wondering if there's a way to make it's influence feel more smooth, and maybe let people make active ST checks to "ground themselves" or "hold on" in order to resist the knockback, but make that harder while walking and much harder while trying to run... all of which feels like something pseudo-grapple like. Maybe Repulsion or Attraction TK? but I've never understood how those are supposed to work mechanically.

2. An ability which is inspired by "wind-sheer" and is great at ripping off things that are attached to the outside of an object like antennae or wings (extremities and limbs and the like), but absolutely ineffectual at hurting the core body of a thing. Ideally in a context of either, like, "here's an area in which things are going to start getting ripped off if you stay in it" or "here's a single attack that will be good at ripping something off."

[naloth]

For #1, I'd use a Crushing Innate Attack with Wall (fixed area or flexible area), Area (affects the size of the wall), Persistent, Knockback x2, and No Wounding. That would allow you to create a persistent zone of knockback with the area and duration adjusted to taste.

#2 You could do it as Innate Attack limited to "only on things that can sheer" possibly linked to the above attack (though you need the same area and duration if you do that).

[Varyon]

Mechanically, these would be easy to implement - but actually building them as powers, not so much.

For the first, you want to assess knockback, but rather than functioning like normal knockback, it's basically applied to the target's movement during its turn (subtracted if going against the wind, added if going toward it, vector-added if going laterally in some flavor). If the total moves you faster than you can normally go (and don't forget you have a lower effective Move if going backward or sideways), you need to make a control roll to avoid falling (which will result in you getting flung away, given that your movement rate while prone is probably around 1).

For the second, first we need to change it so that area effects can cripple (normally, they're basically assessed to the torso only), which would mean (some fraction of) whatever damage they deal is applied to the limbs/extremities, but only for determining if such is crippled. Enough damage to dismember (that is, twice the crippling threshold) tears the offending limb/extremity off.

To build those as powers is, as noted, tricky. The first isn't too bad - its clearly a limitation to the knockback of an attack. I believe No Knockback is -10%, so perhaps -5% (if nkb is -20%, change that to -10%); optionally, this also halves the cost of Double Knockback. Call the Limitation Pushback.

For the second, we need an Enhancement applied to any attack that does Large Area Injury to make it capable of crippling. I'd say perhaps +50%, comparable to Cosmic, Added Utility - with this, you apply the damage of the effect to each cripple-able body part on the target, but only for purposes of determining if they are crippled. Call it Crippling or whatever. The fact the ability doesn't cause any wounding aside from crippling is a Limitation. No Wounding is -50%; Crippling Only is therefore perhaps -30%. If it's further limited to only affect limbs and not extremities (so it can tear your arm off, but not your hand by itself), perhaps -40% total. If this tearing-off of bits does Wound, however (which is appropriate), however, perhaps -20% or -25% is more appropriate.

EDIT: So, all told, we're looking at something like Crushing Innate Attack (Cone +(50+[n])%; Crippling +50%; Double Knockback +10%; Limb Crippling Only, can dismember -25%; No Blunt Trauma -20%; Pushback -5%) [8+0.5n]/level, where n is 10x(width of cone). Each level does 1d cr for purposes of crippling limbs and the like, 2d cr for purposes of knockback.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

1. A wind tunnel with strong enough winds to send lightweight targets flying or impede the movement (against the winds) of larger targets. Preferably scales based on the targets strength. A persistent no wounding double knockback crushing attack with cone or aoe or something seems like it would do the trick, but mechanically I'm not sure I like the "Run forward then get knocked back" vibe of it and am wondering if there's a way to make it's influence feel more smooth, and maybe let people make active ST checks to "ground themselves" or "hold on" in order to resist the knockback, but make that harder while walking and much harder while trying to run... all of which feels like something pseudo-grapple like. Maybe Repulsion or Attraction TK? but I've never understood how those are supposed to work mechanically.

I'd absolutely use TK for this.

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

2. An ability which is inspired by "wind-sheer" and is great at ripping off things that are attached to the outside of an object like antennae or wings (extremities and limbs and the like), but absolutely ineffectual at hurting the core body of a thing. Ideally in a context of either, like, "here's an area in which things are going to start getting ripped off if you stay in it" or "here's a single attack that will be good at ripping something off."

Accessibility plus an area effect innate attack seems about right.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Accessibility plus an area effect innate attack seems about right.

And don't forget Double Knockback to represent buffeting effects. Strong wind will throw you around long before it tears you apart.

For all powers, perhaps add a Nuisance Effect like blowing light nearby objects around.

Per RAW, it's only available for innate attacks which do Crushing or FP damage, but Resistible makes sense for attacks which depend on the target's structural weakness in order to do damage, like winds so strong they tear off parts which aren't properly reinforced.

[oneofmanynameless]

Thanks, guys. This is really helping. I've encountered another one that's got my head scratching (somewhat inspired by Genshin Impact animo abilities and their swirl/elemental absorption):

3. Kicking up the dust: how to add to an ability a tendency to pick up and incorporate debris, such as sand for a sandstormy effect, or (perhaps more dangerously) fire & embers to turn into a firestorm, etc. Seems like environmentally limited linked effects (can be used together for the base ability, must be used together for the extra bits?)

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

Thanks, guys. This is really helping. I've encountered another one that's got my head scratching (somewhat inspired by Genshin Impact animo abilities and their swirl/elemental absorption):

3. Kicking up the dust: how to add to an ability a tendency to pick up and incorporate debris, such as sand for a sandstormy effect, or (perhaps more dangerously) fire & embers to turn into a firestorm, etc. Seems like environmentally limited linked effects (can be used together for the base ability, must be used together for the extra bits?)

If the effect is just what you'd expect from such an incredibly strong wind, I'd be inclined to just allow it, much as a knockback-only effect that is fluffed to be a jet of water can put out fires. As a drawback, however, targets that are aerodynamic would suffer a reduced effect from your wind, at least when presenting their aerodynamic surface.

If the effect is more than what you'd expect - blowing it over a campfire doesn't just scatter hot embers and burning wood, but creates a large cone of flame - then I'd consider something like a Linked Innate Attack with an appropriate Accessibility Limitation.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

Thanks, guys. This is really helping. I've encountered another one that's got my head scratching (somewhat inspired by Genshin Impact animo abilities and their swirl/elemental absorption):

3. Kicking up the dust: how to add to an ability a tendency to pick up and incorporate debris, such as sand for a sandstormy effect, or (perhaps more dangerously) fire & embers to turn into a firestorm, etc. Seems like environmentally limited linked effects (can be used together for the base ability, must be used together for the extra bits?)

It depends what you want it to do. If it's a vision blocker I'd link your above effects to Obscure (leveled to taste). If you want to do a firestorm, I'd by it as an environmentally limited alternate attack. If it's a blinding effect, it could either be an alternate attack or it could be a blindness causing side effect.

[whswhs]

I'm thinking that as a general principle, I wouldn't have these bought as "powers," but would treat them as "power stunts," in which a more general power such as air or wind control is used to accomplish slightly unusual feats.

For the first one, if you were dealing with something that was moving passively, I would simply treat you as having ST equal to your level of Control, which would determine your Basic Lift. If you were dealing with something that was moving actively, I might compare your ST to its, to see if you could bind it in place. Or I might figure the BL for your control, apply that as a load it had to carry or drag, and see how much that slowed it down; that's probably physically more realistic.

So say you're dealing with a man who has ST 10 and Basic Move 5. His Basic Lift is 20 lbs. Say he's wearing/carrying a negligible load of 2 lbs. You try to stop him with Air Control 10, which also gives Basic Lift 20 lbs.; now his load is 22 lbs., and he has -1 to Move, for Move 4. On the other hand, if you apply this to a large bird with ST 5, its Basic Lift is 5 lbs., and your 20 lbs. is heavy encumbrance for it, reducing its movement speed by 60%. (It's not going to fall, because its speed relative to your wind is still 100% of its aerial move; but its speed relative to the ground is drastically reduced.)

I'm not so sure about wind sheer. I might treat it as doing damage based on treating your level of Control as ST, but say that unless your damage was sufficient to dismember a limb or extremity (twice the amount needed to cripple), it had no effect.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Per RAW, it's only available for innate attacks which do Crushing or FP damage, but Resistible makes sense for attacks which depend on the target's structural weakness in order to do damage, like winds so strong they tear off parts which aren't properly reinforced.

That's a good idea really. I like it.