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Old 01-13-2022, 01:12 PM   #11
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Powers: Air control, Modeling Some Things Wind Does

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
For the first one, if you were dealing with something that was moving passively, I would simply treat you as having ST equal to your level of Control, which would determine your Basic Lift. If you were dealing with something that was moving actively, I might compare your ST to its, to see if you could bind it in place. Or I might figure the BL for your control, apply that as a load it had to carry or drag, and see how much that slowed it down; that's probably physically more realistic.
That seems both complicated and overly expensive for that it does. Control 10 (Air) might be a occasion category for 15/lvl putting 10 levels at 150 points base to add 20 lbs of encumbrance? It would be cheaper to have an area affliction that lowers ST if you didn't want the knock back effect.

TK more workable, but I'm not sure if an Area TK affect would divide ST or apply ST evenly to the area. An area "shove" with TK is similar to a knock back only attack, though Innate Attack still seems easier.

Resistible is plausible for the sheering effect. Area (for large area injury), only to extremities, only if it's enough damage to cripple, and resistible seem to work.
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Old 01-13-2022, 02:38 PM   #12
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: Powers: Air control, Modeling Some Things Wind Does

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
TK more workable, but I'm not sure if an Area TK affect would divide ST or apply ST evenly to the area. An area "shove" with TK is similar to a knock back only attack, though Innate Attack still seems easier.
It would if you took modifiers for it, otherwise you should get your full TK.
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:49 PM   #13
oneofmanynameless
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Default Re: Powers: Air control, Modeling Some Things Wind Does

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I'm thinking that as a general principle, I wouldn't have these bought as "powers," but would treat them as "power stunts," in which a more general power such as air or wind control is used to accomplish slightly unusual feats.

For the first one, if you were dealing with something that was moving passively, I would simply treat you as having ST equal to your level of Control, which would determine your Basic Lift. If you were dealing with something that was moving actively, I might compare your ST to its, to see if you could bind it in place. Or I might figure the BL for your control, apply that as a load it had to carry or drag, and see how much that slowed it down; that's probably physically more realistic.
So this is basically allowing Control to (when appropriate) include elements of TK? Or are you thinking of using Abilities on Default for TK or Binding or a Knockback Only Crushing Attack as necessary to accomplish the effect?

Most of the time when I build powers that include Control (especially of the type appropriate to the "Shaper" template out of Supers) I often include both Control and environmental TK (often linked) for the sake of having that highly versatile central effect. I'd never considered just letting Control include TK elements before, but it's very intriguing.

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
TK more workable, but I'm not sure if an Area TK affect would divide ST or apply ST evenly to the area. An area "shove" with TK is similar to a knock back only attack, though Innate Attack still seems easier.
According to the TK entry in Powers (pg. 82, third column) For all collective uses of TK, compare weight of everything effective to the TK's strength to determine the TK's encumbrance. My reading of that is that AOE 2 TK 10 (BL 20) would be unencumbered by throwing back a single 10lbs spider, but encumbered by trying to throw back 3 of them at once (for a total weight of 30 lbs). I usually treat it as a +100% cosmic to bypass this in order to have the TK force apply at full strength to each object independently. I use that cosmic a lot.
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Old 01-13-2022, 08:45 PM   #14
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: Powers: Air control, Modeling Some Things Wind Does

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Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless View Post
So this is basically allowing Control to (when appropriate) include elements of TK? Or are you thinking of using Abilities on Default for TK or Binding or a Knockback Only Crushing Attack as necessary to accomplish the effect?

Most of the time when I build powers that include Control (especially of the type appropriate to the "Shaper" template out of Supers) I often include both Control and environmental TK (often linked) for the sake of having that highly versatile central effect. I'd never considered just letting Control include TK elements before, but it's very intriguing.
I was thinking the former. You can cause a substance to elongate or flow at a Move equal to your Control level; for Air Control 10, that's Move 10 or 20 mph winds, which is a fresh breeze on the Beaufort scale. I wouldn't let wind act as a "pair of hands," which avoids full telekinetic effects, but I would allow it to push something, to apply lift or drag forces, to produce shear, or to provide suction via a vortex.

I thought about having the force be equivalent to 10x Basic Lift, but I think that's too optimistic. It would let Air Control 1 apply a force of 2 pounds, and Air Control 5 a force of 50 pounds.
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:41 AM   #15
oneofmanynameless
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Default Re: Powers: Air control, Modeling Some Things Wind Does

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Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
I'd absolutely use TK for this.
On the topic of using TK for this effect, how much would you charge for a version of TK that essentially worked like attraction/repulsion but you could choose the point of attraction and point of repulsion within your range? Is that a ranged modifier? (instead of the object being repulsed or attracted to you it's repulsed or attracted to a point in the environment designated by you that you can target as per a ranged attack)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I was thinking the former. You can cause a substance to elongate or flow at a Move equal to your Control level; for Air Control 10, that's Move 10 or 20 mph winds, which is a fresh breeze on the Beaufort scale. I wouldn't let wind act as a "pair of hands," which avoids full telekinetic effects, but I would allow it to push something, to apply lift or drag forces, to produce shear, or to provide suction via a vortex.

I thought about having the force be equivalent to 10x Basic Lift, but I think that's too optimistic. It would let Air Control 1 apply a force of 2 pounds, and Air Control 5 a force of 50 pounds.
I think that's not only fair but potentially a really good thing to keep in mind for the sake of handling the flexibility of Control and keeping it worth it's points. What does Control Air 10 do? You can change the direction and intensity of air currents within the area up to that amount, which can be treated as a TK with strength equal to the level (10) for the purposes of applying constant pressure. You can also direct air currents to disrupt or get in peoples ways for a task difficulty penalty assigned by the GM (could by easily up to -lvl for certain tasks). Etc.

And if you want a more specific ability to accomplish one of these effects in a more cinematically dramatic way you could buy one, or do it on default (or if you have modular points or wild talent (ability use) as part of your power use those.)
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