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Old 10-22-2021, 07:10 AM   #1
GURPZine
 
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Default Powers - ST/DX boost

I want to create two powers, which allow me to temporarily increase (for 1 min) ST or DX, consuming Blood Points. I want a +1 boost to these attributes for every Blood Point spent to a maximum of +5.

I am doing this way:
  • DX Boost +5 (Costs Blood Points, -25%; Vampirism, -10%) [65]
  • ST Boost +5 (Striking ST + 5: Costs Blood Points, -25%; Vampirism, -10%; Link, +10% [19] AND Lifting ST +5: Vampirism, -10%; Link, +10% [15]) [34] NOTE: It took two advantages to prevent the additional ST from affecting the character's HP.

I'm considering the gradient of being able to choose to use the power at a lower level (like spending only 2 Blood Points to get DX+2 instead of spending the full cost) is a zero point feature.

But i don't know if this is the right or the best way to do this. Any help please?

Last edited by GURPZine; 10-22-2021 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 10-22-2021, 08:37 AM   #2
ericthered
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Default Re: Powers - ST/DX boost

are blood points a 3e thing?
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Old 10-22-2021, 08:42 AM   #3
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Default Re: Powers - ST/DX boost

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
are blood points a 3e thing?
No, it's 4th edition. See "Energy Reserve", GURPS Powers p.119.
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Old 10-22-2021, 09:06 AM   #4
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Default Re: Powers - ST/DX boost

oh, its a special recharge energy reserve. I thought it might be, but wasn't sure.

The split ST advantages are just fine. Most people here know exactly what you mean.

Technically, the costs energy reserve advantage should list a number, and get -5% per point costed. (which I think you did, just not with the number listed).

The problem with your "feature" of being able to select the level is that spending 1 FP for 1 DX looks like this:

Improved DX +1 (Costs 1 Blood Point -5%, Vampirism -10%) [17]

Imagine if you bought the ability up to +14:

Improved DX +14 (Costs 14 Blood Point -70%, Vampirism -10%) [66]

That's one point more than the +5, and the +12 version almost certainly costs more.

That said, these builds get really complicated really fast, and its not uncommon for people to complain about costs FP not being priced ideally. As a GM I'd allow for "costs 1 blood point per level" to be -25% without issue: that sounds fair, and perhaps you could even justify a greater discount.
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Old 10-22-2021, 09:06 AM   #5
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Default Re: Powers - ST/DX boost

If I'm not mistaken, Powers and Power Ups 4 both have a variable version of Costs Fatigue, which would be equivalent.

I would treat Boosted ST as a single meta trait of the same cost as combined Lifting ST and Striking ST, and apply the modifiers to it separately. It just seems wrong that increasing ST costs more if you don't include HP.
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Old 10-22-2021, 09:23 AM   #6
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Default Re: Powers - ST/DX boost

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
oh, its a special recharge energy reserve. I thought it might be, but wasn't sure.

The split ST advantages are just fine. Most people here know exactly what you mean.

Technically, the costs energy reserve advantage should list a number, and get -5% per point costed. (which I think you did, just not with the number listed).

The problem with your "feature" of being able to select the level is that spending 1 FP for 1 DX looks like this:

Improved DX +1 (Costs 1 Blood Point -5%, Vampirism -10%) [17]

Imagine if you bought the ability up to +14:

Improved DX +14 (Costs 14 Blood Point -70%, Vampirism -10%) [66]

That's one point more than the +5, and the +12 version almost certainly costs more.

That said, these builds get really complicated really fast, and its not uncommon for people to complain about costs FP not being priced ideally. As a GM I'd allow for "costs 1 blood point per level" to be -25% without issue: that sounds fair, and perhaps you could even justify a greater discount.
Improved DX +14 costs 56 not 66.

But palyers can't buy beyond +5, it's a fixed racial trait. Maybe i should remove Vampirism -10%? For Potence/Celerity Disciplines (Masquerade) there will be a separate power.
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Old 10-22-2021, 09:42 AM   #7
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Default Re: Powers - ST/DX boost

For the ST build, you don't need Link. (See the uFAQ; the +10% form is for saving activation times when you're activating two switchable abilities at once. To build compound abilities with Always On traits, the Kromm-approved method is to take the Costs FP on the most expensive ability only, while all the others get a flat -10% "only while main ability active" Accessibility Limitation. In this case, Striking ST with Costs FP and Lifting ST with -10% "Only while Striking ST is active".)

For the sake of easy arithmetic and notation, I'd be okay with just calling "No-HP ST" a single ability at 8/level (whether you get there by saying it's 10 - 2 for -1 HP, or 5 + 3 for Striking and Lifting ST). This Will have a tiny variance from the method above, since it's applying Costs FP to the whole thing while omitting the -10% Accessibility from the lesser part.

The proper way to build a levelled ability with variable cost per level is to price each level separately and add them all up. In the simple case, with a flat discount per level, you can just take the cost of the maximum level and apply the average discount to the whole thing.

(That is, if blood points were -10% per point, and you have 5 levels of an 8-point ability, that's 8 * .90 + 8 * .80 + 8 * .70... = 8 * (.90 + .80 + .70...) = 8 * 3.5 = 28 = (5 * 8) * .70.)

If the cost changes for different levels (as it might depending on your favorite Costs FP houserule), then you might have to break it down by level, as each level could have a different discount.
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Old 10-22-2021, 10:18 AM   #8
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Default Re: Powers - ST/DX boost

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
For the ST build, you don't need Link. (See the uFAQ; the +10% form is for saving activation times when you're activating two switchable abilities at once. To build compound abilities with Always On traits, the Kromm-approved method is to take the Costs FP on the most expensive ability only, while all the others get a flat -10% "only while main ability active" Accessibility Limitation. In this case, Striking ST with Costs FP and Lifting ST with -10% "Only while Striking ST is active".)
So, correcting. I removed vampirism, because i want it to be a racial trait, not a power. And I made the correction you suggested, as Kromm said.

DX Boost +5 (Costs Blood Points, -25%) [75]

ST Boost +5 [33]
  • Striking ST + 5 (Costs Blood Points, -25%) [19]
  • Lifting ST +5 (Only while Striking ST is active, -10%) [14]

Quote:
For the sake of easy arithmetic and notation, I'd be okay with just calling "No-HP ST" a single ability at 8/level (whether you get there by saying it's 10 - 2 for -1 HP, or 5 + 3 for Striking and Lifting ST). This Will have a tiny variance from the method above, since it's applying Costs FP to the whole thing while omitting the -10% Accessibility from the lesser part.

The proper way to build a levelled ability with variable cost per level is to price each level separately and add them all up. In the simple case, with a flat discount per level, you can just take the cost of the maximum level and apply the average discount to the whole thing.

(That is, if blood points were -10% per point, and you have 5 levels of an 8-point ability, that's 8 * .90 + 8 * .80 + 8 * .70... = 8 * (.90 + .80 + .70...) = 8 * 3.5 = 28 = (5 * 8) * .70.)

If the cost changes for different levels (as it might depending on your favorite Costs FP houserule), then you might have to break it down by level, as each level could have a different discount.
Levelled ability:

DX Boost [total cost 75 points]
  1. DX+1 (Costs Blood Points, -5%) [19]
  2. DX+1 (Costs Blood Points, -5%; Flat discount, -10%) [17]
  3. DX+1 (Costs Blood Points, -5%; Flat discount, -20%) [15]
  4. DX+1 (Costs Blood Points, -5%; Flat discount, -30%) [13]
  5. DX+1 (Costs Blood Points, -5%; Flat discount, -40%) [11]

ST Boost +5 [total cost 25 points]
  1. ST+1 [6] {Striking ST + 1 (Costs Blood Points, -25%) [4]; Lifting ST +1 (Only while Striking ST is active, -10%) [2]}
  2. ST+1 [-10%; 5] {Striking ST + 1 (Costs Blood Points, -25%) [4]; Lifting ST +1 (Only while Striking ST is active, -10%) [2]}
  3. ST+1 [-20%; 5] {Striking ST + 1 (Costs Blood Points, -25%) [4]; Lifting ST +1 (Only while Striking ST is active, -10%) [2]}
  4. ST+1 [-30%; 5] {Striking ST + 1 (Costs Blood Points, -25%) [4]; Lifting ST +1 (Only while Striking ST is active, -10%) [2]}
  5. ST+1 [-40%; 4] {Striking ST + 1 (Costs Blood Points, -25%) [4]; Lifting ST +1 (Only while Striking ST is active, -10%) [2]}

I don't know if math is ok in ST Boost. If a limitation of -10% is applied over 3 points advantage, it should cost 2 or 3 points? because -10% is just 0.3 point and i should round up 2.7 to 3 (unchanged)?

Here a sheet to make it easy to calc:ST Boost

Last edited by GURPZine; 10-22-2021 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 10-22-2021, 12:52 PM   #9
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Default Re: Powers - ST/DX boost

Quote:
Originally Posted by GURPZine View Post
I'm considering the gradient of being able to choose to use the power at a lower level (like spending only 2 Blood Points to get DX+2 instead of spending the full cost) is a zero point feature.
Your Costs Blood Points should be built along the lines of Costs Fatigue (Variable) from GURPS Powers, which has its own pricing. IDHMBWM so I can't really look up the difference.

Other than that, I'm not seeing anything wrong with the build.

Good luck!
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Old 10-22-2021, 01:46 PM   #10
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Default Re: Powers - ST/DX boost

Quote:
Originally Posted by GURPZine View Post
So, correcting. I removed vampirism, because i want it to be a racial trait, not a power. And I made the correction you suggested, as Kromm said.

DX Boost +5 (Costs Blood Points, -25%) [75]

ST Boost +5 [33]
  • Striking ST + 5 (Costs Blood Points, -25%) [19]
  • Lifting ST +5 (Only while Striking ST is active, -10%) [14]



Levelled ability:

DX Boost [total cost 75 points]
  1. DX+1 (Costs Blood Points, -5%) [19]
  2. DX+1 (Costs Blood Points, -5%; Flat discount, -10%) [17]
  3. DX+1 (Costs Blood Points, -5%; Flat discount, -20%) [15]
  4. DX+1 (Costs Blood Points, -5%; Flat discount, -30%) [13]
  5. DX+1 (Costs Blood Points, -5%; Flat discount, -40%) [11]

ST Boost +5 [total cost 25 points]
  1. ST+1 [6] {Striking ST + 1 (Costs Blood Points, -25%) [4]; Lifting ST +1 (Only while Striking ST is active, -10%) [2]}
  2. ST+1 [-10%; 5] {Striking ST + 1 (Costs Blood Points, -25%) [4]; Lifting ST +1 (Only while Striking ST is active, -10%) [2]}
  3. ST+1 [-20%; 5] {Striking ST + 1 (Costs Blood Points, -25%) [4]; Lifting ST +1 (Only while Striking ST is active, -10%) [2]}
  4. ST+1 [-30%; 5] {Striking ST + 1 (Costs Blood Points, -25%) [4]; Lifting ST +1 (Only while Striking ST is active, -10%) [2]}
  5. ST+1 [-40%; 4] {Striking ST + 1 (Costs Blood Points, -25%) [4]; Lifting ST +1 (Only while Striking ST is active, -10%) [2]}

I don't know if math is ok in ST Boost. If a limitation of -10% is applied over 3 points advantage, it should cost 2 or 3 points? because -10% is just 0.3 point and i should round up 2.7 to 3 (unchanged)?

Here a sheet to make it easy to calc:ST Boost
Seems to me it would be simpler to write it up as:

DX +5 (Costs 1-5 Blood Points -15%) [85]
External ST +5 (Costs 1-5 Blood Points -15%) [34]

So for each ability it costs one Blood Point to get a +1. If you want Striking and Lifting ST broken out:

Striking ST +5 (Costs 1-5 Blood Points -15%) [22]
Lifting ST +5 (Only with Striking ST -10%) [14]
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