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Old 09-22-2023, 10:54 AM   #11
Bill_in_IN
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Indiana
Default Re: Forcing Retreat in Melee / TFT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
And I concur with this concur. ;-) Seriously.
I do thank you for your concurrence. When I see points with which I agree, I like to point it out. It also may give new forum members and TFTers clarity that some of the old timers agree on a topic. I don't catch all on the forum for which this is the case so I ask folks NOT to assume that my lack of comment is disagreement.

As a GM, I need to emphasize the availability of the Forced Retreat option when the situation exists.

Last edited by Bill_in_IN; 09-22-2023 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 09-22-2023, 03:16 PM   #12
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Durham, NC
Default Re: Forcing Retreat in Melee / TFT

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Originally Posted by Bill_in_IN View Post
As a GM, I need to emphasize the availability of the Forced Retreat option when the situation exists.
Yes! This is easier said than done. Forced retreats don't seem to happen often, and then it become the norm to stop looking for them.

Generally speaking, they make little difference most of the time, with two exceptions where they make a big difference: fighting with polearm and being adjacent to a hazard.
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Old 09-27-2023, 06:49 AM   #13
Bill_in_IN
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Indiana
Default Re: Forcing Retreat in Melee / TFT

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Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
Yes! This is easier said than done. Forced retreats don't seem to happen often, and then it become the norm to stop looking for them.

Generally speaking, they make little difference most of the time, with two exceptions where they make a big difference: fighting with polearm and being adjacent to a hazard.
It can force a disengagement or move them away from another party member that needs the extra protection.
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Old 10-02-2023, 06:32 AM   #14
Bill_in_IN
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Indiana
Default Re: Forcing Retreat in Melee / TFT

Another question about Force Retreats.

I don't see where their are any size references with respect to how this option is applied. For example, a PC is fighting a giant. The PC inflicts damage on te giant and doesn't take damage.

Per ITL RAW, the attacking PC could go for Force Retreat even if only one point of damage is inflicted on the giant.

Unless someone can point to other info to help resolve this, a GM can run with what was described above with no acknowledgement of the size difference. However, At this time, I would have to consider two other options. 1. Not allow it for when the target is that much larger than the attacker. 2. Allow it provided that a threshold of damage is met such as 3 points (for being a 3 hex figure compared to a 1 hex figure).

Personally, I'm leaning toward option 2.

Thoughts?
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Old 10-02-2023, 01:13 PM   #15
Drakenbow
 
Join Date: Sep 2023
Default Re: Forcing Retreat in Melee / TFT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_in_IN View Post
Another question about Force Retreats.

I don't see where their are any size references with respect to how this option is applied. For example, a PC is fighting a giant. The PC inflicts damage on te giant and doesn't take damage.

Per ITL RAW, the attacking PC could go for Force Retreat even if only one point of damage is inflicted on the giant.

Thoughts?
RAW as you note doesn't discuss size of attacker vs defender. It seems to depend on if one thinks a small creature could push back a larger one. If you think the situation isn't truly applicable for a one-on-one situation, the rules for engagement might be considered here. Two (or more) one-hex vs a giant when those who damaged the giant didn't get damaged themselves. It might be odd for a one-hex to force a 14-hex dragon to retreat.

Another consideration about it would be how much damage was done like how larger creatures can take more before suffering a -2 DX or be knocked down.

The big thing as a GM, I would not try to pop it one the player(s) right at that moment. Having it drawn up as modifications to RAW and that they be aware of the alterations. As a player, I would be pleased if I could force the giant NPC into an unfavorable position. Though I hear Abominables bounce if they fall off cliffs.
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Old 10-02-2023, 02:16 PM   #16
Bill_in_IN
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Indiana
Default Re: Forcing Retreat in Melee / TFT

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Originally Posted by Drakenbow View Post
RAW as you note doesn't discuss size of attacker vs defender. It seems to depend on if one thinks a small creature could push back a larger one. If you think the situation isn't truly applicable for a one-on-one situation, the rules for engagement might be considered here. Two (or more) one-hex vs a giant when those who damaged the giant didn't get damaged themselves. It might be odd for a one-hex to force a 14-hex dragon to retreat.

Another consideration about it would be how much damage was done like how larger creatures can take more before suffering a -2 DX or be knocked down.

The big thing as a GM, I would not try to pop it one the player(s) right at that moment. Having it drawn up as modifications to RAW and that they be aware of the alterations. As a player, I would be pleased if I could force the giant NPC into an unfavorable position. Though I hear Abominables bounce if they fall off cliffs.
LOL!

Linking the forced treat to the engagement rules for multi-hex characters Sounds like a sound approach to me.
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Old 10-03-2023, 12:18 PM   #17
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Forcing Retreat in Melee / TFT

While it's true some of the results for many things in this game sometimes seem silly, it can also be a lot of fun coming up with the in-game rationalizations that "explain" them.

Would a giant ever jump back a hex for taking a 1-point hit?

Maybe not all hits feel the same. A 1-point hit might not be any more life-threatening no matter where it lands, but what if by luck it occasionally lands somewhere exceptionally, well, sensitive. I'll leave that up to our collective imaginations.

Fact is, it could happen. One might jump a foot backwards getting a staple in their finger, even though that's nowhere near 10% or even 1% of the damage needed to kill them.

You could say there are a bunch of this type of thing factored into all the TFT rules just by their generalized, less granular nature. Call it design error, or call it sheer genius, whichever you prefer.
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Old 10-03-2023, 01:37 PM   #18
Drakenbow
 
Join Date: Sep 2023
Default Re: Forcing Retreat in Melee / TFT

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Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck View Post
Maybe not all hits feel the same. A 1-point hit might not be any more life-threatening no matter where it lands, but what if by luck it occasionally lands somewhere exceptionally, well, sensitive. I'll leave that up to our collective imaginations.
Ever have an angry cat jump in your face? I agree it could happen that one gets off balanced by a small critter.
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Old 10-03-2023, 02:37 PM   #19
Bill_in_IN
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Indiana
Default Re: Forcing Retreat in Melee / TFT

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Originally Posted by Drakenbow View Post
Ever have an angry cat jump in your face? I agree it could happen that one gets off balanced by a small critter.
I once accidentally stepped on our cat's tail because he quietly walked up behind me. He went into looking like a blurry ball of fur around my lower leg. When I lifted my foot, my leg was scratched up so bad that I had to disinfect and wrap it up in gauss. I took our or two hits of damage on my leg.
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Old 10-03-2023, 08:20 PM   #20
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Durham, NC
Default Re: Forcing Retreat in Melee / TFT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakenbow View Post
RAW as you note doesn't discuss size of attacker vs defender. It seems to depend on if one thinks a small creature could push back a larger one. If you think the situation isn't truly applicable for a one-on-one situation, the rules for engagement might be considered here. Two (or more) one-hex vs a giant when those who damaged the giant didn't get damaged themselves. It might be odd for a one-hex to force a 14-hex dragon to retreat.
This is brilliant.

The problem with 1 hex figures injuring a multihex figure is that there can be so many more of them. The giant can only strike one of them, is likely to get struck by several. The above is an improvement on the current system of only one needs to strike the giant to drive it back.

I think the above is both brilliant and a reasonable approach. Nice job.
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