Steve Jackson Games Forums Number of parries with Martial Arts
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01-20-2021, 09:34 AM   #31
Plane

Join Date: Aug 2018
Re: Number of parries with Martial Arts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth I'd argue that read literally, those lines actually suggest that non-positive scores don't allow a roll.
I wouldn't call it a literal suggestion, but only using 1/2 as an example instead of 0/-1 might be considered an implication-by-omission?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth The first says that you can only roll for scores less than three if it's a defense roll, but it doesn't say you can always attempt a defense roll with low values.
You can't always attempt defense rolls, there are restrictions like needing to be aware of the attack, or the defense being appropriate to the attack (normally can't block a bullet or parry an arrow) but numerically speaking unless we're told something like "you need a minimum effective defense score of 1 to roll" I don't know that this would exist.

Which is why at the very least, "you need a minimum of negative five" seems like a good guideline since that's the point where an automatic-success-four is also a crit fail

so we could house-rule that "crit fail negates crit success" as a way of avoiding the silliness of "I can attempt to do a Sacrificial Parry with my reach 4 weapon against sixteen attacks levied at allies in my viscinity"

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth The second specifically names two scores that are less than three for which that's true. I suspect that the intent is indeed that non-positive scores work exactly the same as 1 or 2. But nothing in either quotation implies that. It's just that the alternative is silly.
It would be clearer if we were told whether "less than three" is solely "one or two" or if 1 and 2 were merely examples of quantities less than 3.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by corwyn I don't use the "miss by 10 = crit fail" rule for defenses because once you get down to 5- you are more likely to crit fail than succeed and I don't like to discourage rolling defenses.
Discouraging defenses can make sense though: it seems realistic that if you're extremely fatigued you could be more likely to fall down trying to dodge a punch than actually dodge it, or smack yourself in the face trying to parry a punch than actually parry it.

One change I would like to see is that perhaps crit fail outcomes could be mutually exclusive from whether your defense succeeds.

It seems plausible that you could successfully dodge an attack but do so in such a clumsy way that you end up losing your balance falling down, for example (same with kicks) but the way the rules work seems to work is a dodge will only make you fall if you fail to avoid the attack and a kick will only make you fall if you fail to impact your target (miss or defended)

It might be interesting to be able to choose a "recklessness degree" where you have a higher chance of success at something by having higher odds of post-success flubs.

Like for example if you normally crit-fail on a MoF of 10, you might be able to get +1 to your roll in exchange for crit fail results happening incrementally sooner, like maybe by multiples of four

So if I have a dodge/kick skill of 5 (crit fail happens if I roll a 15+ due to MoF 10)...
I could boost my skill to 6, but then a crit fail happens from MoF 6 (if I roll 12+)
I could boost my skill to 7, but then a crit fail happens from MoF 2 (if I roll 9+)
I could boost my skill to 8, but then a crit fail happens from MoF -2+

At the point you reach a NEGATIVE margin of failure, that would mean you instead need a minimum Margin of Success (in this case 3 or higher) to avoid suffering the effects of a crit fail AFTER you succeed: falling down on a kick or a dodge for example, losing readiness of shield on a block, or treating like a crit fail hit on a parry or attack.

However you want to balance this could be based on the multiple of which the skill bonus reduces the normal margin range. It should just be a minimum of 2 because 1:1 would be offset by the bonus. 1:2 seems too generous though.

There should probably be a hard cap on this so that someone doesn't take +20 to dodge in exchange for post-success falls on a MoS below 80... you could probably math is to that you can't get a bonus once you get to the point where it would require a MoS which is impossible to achieve.

You'd find the barrier by subtracting 3 from boosted skill.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by corwyn I'll certainly concede that is/was the intent in Basic
Whoever wrote the 'or weapon held in it' passage, it's hard to perceive that as unintended...

I see it as more like subtle changes that happened to Magery, like how in Basic it's worded like it senses all magic items and then in Magic it only senses permanent ones and not temporary magic items, and doesn't acknowledge it's a change and implies it was always that way.

 02-05-2021, 09:19 PM #32 Boge     Join Date: Jul 2015 Re: Number of parries with Martial Arts B376. "This penalty only applies to multiple parries on the same turn; it does not carry over between turns." If an enemy attacks, you parry twice. Then it's the next enemies turn and they attack you as well. Does the penalty NOT continue on the next attacks?
02-05-2021, 10:52 PM   #33
Ulzgoroth

Join Date: Jul 2008
Re: Number of parries with Martial Arts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Boge B376. "This penalty only applies to multiple parries on the same turn; it does not carry over between turns." If an enemy attacks, you parry twice. Then it's the next enemies turn and they attack you as well. Does the penalty NOT continue on the next attacks?
Is there any case in GURPS where 'on the same turn' means that?
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02-06-2021, 12:42 PM   #34
Plane

Join Date: Aug 2018
Re: Number of parries with Martial Arts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Boge If an enemy attacks, you parry twice. Then it's the next enemies turn and they attack you as well. Does the penalty NOT continue on the next attacks?
I think B376 is referring to the defender's turn, not the turns of their attackers.

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/faq/FAQ4-3.html#SS3.4.1.3

Quote:
 Originally Posted by 3.4.1.3 In combat, when does your turn end? Your turn ends after you've chosen, executed, and ended a maneuver – Attack, Concentrate, etc. For the sole purpose of active defenses, your turn has consequences that extend past that period, until you choose your next maneuver. Thus, one could say your turn doesn't end until your next one begins. But everything that refers to turns in the Basic Set – with the sole exception of the active defense rules – hews to the more restricted usage above.
B419's writeup on Shock interestingly appears to mean that the IQ and DX penalty would not apply until you finished that turn and chose a new maneuver... so for example if I had 19 HP (takes 7 damage to cripple my hand) Extra Attack (Multi-Strike) and right-handed punched a fire elemental and burned my hand for 4 HP (triggering -4 to DX from shock) I could make a 2nd right-handed punch at that elemental at no DX penalty, it's only the following second I'd be -4 to punch it.

02-06-2021, 01:07 PM   #35
corwyn

Join Date: Aug 2004
Re: Number of parries with Martial Arts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Plane I think B376 is referring to the defender's turn, not the turns of their attackers. http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/faq/FAQ4-3.html#SS3.4.1.3 B419's writeup on Shock interestingly appears to mean that the IQ and DX penalty would not apply until you finished that turn and chose a new maneuver... so for example if I had 19 HP (takes 7 damage to cripple my hand) Extra Attack (Multi-Strike) and right-handed punched a fire elemental and burned my hand for 4 HP (triggering -4 to DX from shock) I could make a 2nd right-handed punch at that elemental at no DX penalty, it's only the following second I'd be -4 to punch it.
That's because the rules assume, rightly, that most of the time damage will occur in between your turns. The most common exceptions would be hurting yourself and Waits. I usually run this as "whenever you take damage, your shock penalty applies from now until your next turn." Any other interpretation encounters weirdness.
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