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Old 07-25-2014, 05:34 PM   #1
mr beer
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Grappling confusions

Hi,

A few questions please...

1. If you grapple someone, what defences can you take? Obviously you can't Parry or Block with any arm you are using to grapple, but can you Dodge? What about Retreat and is that limited by the 'can't move unless x2 ST' rule?

2. The defender is at -4 DX for the limb that is grappled, but am I right in saying that they may not attack with that limb, even with a DX penalty? So they would need to break free first?

Thanks
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Old 07-25-2014, 05:53 PM   #2
Ulzgoroth
 
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Default Re: Grappling confusions

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Originally Posted by mr beer View Post
Hi,

A few questions please...

1. If you grapple someone, what defences can you take? Obviously you can't Parry or Block with any arm you are using to grapple, but can you Dodge? What about Retreat and is that limited by the 'can't move unless x2 ST' rule?
Yes, you can pretty much always dodge. And grappling someone, as opposed to being grappled, imposes no penalty. However, yes, as directly follows from the rules, you have to be able to retreat to obtain the benefit for retreating.
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2. The defender is at -4 DX for the limb that is grappled, but am I right in saying that they may not attack with that limb, even with a DX penalty? So they would need to break free first?

Thanks
The box on page 371 says "You cannot use any limb that has been grappled" in relation to making attacks after being grappled.
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Old 07-26-2014, 01:27 AM   #3
mr beer
 
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Default Re: Grappling confusions

OK thank you for that.
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Old 07-26-2014, 11:23 AM   #4
Captain Joy
 
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Default Re: Grappling confusions

You might find my Unarmed Combat Flowchart helpful.
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Old 07-26-2014, 02:45 PM   #5
MatthewVilter
 
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Default Re: Grappling confusions

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Originally Posted by mr beer View Post
1. If you grapple someone, what defences can you take? Obviously you can't Parry or Block with any arm you are using to grapple, but can you Dodge?
Martial Arts goes into a bit more detail on what Parrying means in the context of grappling (MA p. 122). Although the biggest change is when you are defending against being grappled...*

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
However, yes, as directly follows from the rules, you have to be able to retreat to obtain the benefit for retreating.
To clarify: If you can't carry your victim with you, or it is them attacking you, you can still retreat but only if you are willing to let go.

Also note that you can parry with a limb that you are using to grapple but, again, only if you let go.

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You might find my Unarmed Combat Flowchart helpful.
Nice!


*Okay so now I have my own grappling question, if you don't mind.

Martial Arts page 122 under "What Is . . . a Parry?" notes that you can use an unarmed combat skill to parry a "grappling technique" (original emphasis) with a hands-free counter. Does a basic grab or takedown count as a "grappling technique"? What about a grappling technique being used with a weapon?

Also: I remember at one point reading (or misreading) that you can use your grappling skill based Parries freely against someone you are grappling (as in "against any attack they make") by pulling and pushing them to disrupt their attack (ie without letting go of them). Did I just make that up? Or can someone point me to that rule?
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Old 07-26-2014, 03:17 PM   #6
Ulzgoroth
 
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Originally Posted by MatthewVilter View Post
Martial Arts page 122 under "What Is . . . a Parry?" notes that you can use an unarmed combat skill to parry a "grappling technique" (original emphasis) with a hands-free counter. Does a basic grab or takedown count as a "grappling technique"? What about a grappling technique being used with a weapon?
I believe all of the above are suitable for hands-free parrying.
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Also: I remember at one point reading (or misreading) that you can use your grappling skill based Parries freely against someone you are grappling (as in "against any attack they make") by pulling and pushing them to disrupt their attack (ie without letting go of them). Did I just make that up? Or can someone point me to that rule?
I have similar recollections. If it exists anywhere, it would be in Martial Arts, probably in that same box. I am sure it has been discussed before on the forums, if you search, but do not remember the conclusions.
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Old 07-26-2014, 05:12 PM   #7
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Grappling confusions

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I have similar recollections. If it exists anywhere, it would be in Martial Arts, probably in that same box. I am sure it has been discussed before on the forums, if you search, but do not remember the conclusions.
Spending Control Points to improve a parry or dodge while grappling is a nice house rule if using Technical Grappling. I either talked about it here on the forums, or on my blog. I'm searching, but yeah - if you have grappled your foe, spending CP to improve your defenses seems legit.
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:53 AM   #8
Kromm
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Default Re: Grappling confusions

The official word on what defenses you're allowed to use when grappled/grappling is one of the few things in a supplement that I feel ought to be in the Basic Set, so here you go:
Defense While Grappling

A grappled fighter has -4 to DX (p. B370). This affects combat skills, giving -2 to Block and Parry – and a grappled limb can't block or parry. Dodge is at -1, equivalent to the effect of -4 DX on Basic Speed (which isn't reduced). If a technique gives a worse defense penalty (e.g., -4 for Arm Lock), use that instead. Finally, the victim can't step or change posture while defending, so he can't retreat or use Acrobatic Dodge.

The grappler has no penalties. However, he can't parry with a limb without releasing its hold on his victim. To retreat or use Acrobatic Dodge, he must let go with all of his limbs.
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