ST damage formula

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by ErhnamDJ

Maybe limit damage based on skill? Damage can't exceed skill/4 with a punch and skill/3 with a kick? It would at least be easy to keep track of and write down on a sheet. Also gives a reason to AoA and go Telegraphic.

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of how to test the striking force of real-world martial artists, when GURPS "skill level" doesn't have any measurable real-world corollary (except maybe hours spent in training, but that's never been a hard rule, and is wrought with problems when used as a metric.) I suppose the way to do it would be to test numerous experts (black belts? higher?) and assume that they have GURPS skill of at least DX+2 (for the maximum unarmed damage bonus of +2 per die) and thus are striking with near-peak efficiency. You'd also need to test for their equivalent ST, which is easier than estimating skill, but still hard (since all we can reasonably measure is Lifting ST, when what we're trying to reach is Striking ST.)

Of course, this is turning into a project I don't expect to be undertaken for the sake of a forum thread, but for at minimum a paid Pyramid article or an entire GURPS sourcebook (Technical Striking? I can dream, can't I?)

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Refplace

I was thinking an article on alternate ST and scaling might be good for the Alternate GURPS issue of Pyramid

Well, I posted the out-take to this forum, so I can't submit it again. it's already public domain.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Technical Striking? I can dream, can't I?)

Huh. Let's see how the Grappling one does first. :-)

Still, I think some of the concepts in TG could be excised and laid on to striking. Not a full book, though, definitely Pyramid-size.

[ErhnamDJ]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Technical Striking? I can dream, can't I?

Make it a chapter in Gurps Biomechanics. It can be before the section that explains how to give different armor weights based on height, weight, and ST.

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

the formula assumes using the (N+1)d-1/+0/+1/+2 formula that ST10-22 is based on (1d, 1d+1, 1d+2, 2d-1, 2d etc)

Which I house rule as the ST progression in general. And we may do so with Kromm's blessing. From an old ST and damage thread:

Originally Posted by Kromm

Personally, I prefer to increment swing for ever ST point, thrust for every two ST points, and apply Nd-1, Nd, Nd+1, Nd+2, (N+1)d-1, (N+1)d, (N+1)d+1, (N+1)d+2, etc. No jogs or padding.

[zoncxs]

Originally Posted by Captain Joy

Which I house rule as the ST progression in general. And we may do so with Kromm's blessing. From an old ST and damage thread:

yup, mostly why I did this was for figuring out the damage for any level of ST. I made a google doc for it and didn't feel like making a 1000 long list. me figuring out this formula makes it easy, just plug in the ST and you get how much dice of damage it is.


32189433? = 8047357d-1 dice of damage for swing and 4023678d+2 for thrust :)

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

the formula assumes using the (N+1)d-1/+0/+1/+2 formula that ST10-22 is based on (1d, 1d+1, 1d+2, 2d-1, 2d etc)

for swing: ((ST-10)+4)/4 = dice of damage.
for thrust: ((ST-10)+4)/8 = dice of damage.

decimals are treated as such:

less than .25 = add 1
less than .5 but more than .25 = add 2
less than .75 but more than .5 = add 1d-1

it is unclear what should be down when the fraction is exactly .25 or exactly .50 or exactly .75. See second example below.

Originally Posted by zoncxs

so, lets say you want to know ST 14?

14-10 = 4+4 = 8/8 = 2d6 for swing
14-10 = 4+4 = 8/8 = 1d6 for thrust

I think you mean "8/4 = 2d6 for swing".

Originally Posted by zoncxs

what about, say, ST50?

50-10 = 40+4 = 44/4 = 11d6 for swing
50-10 = 40+4= 44/8 = 5.5 = 5d+2 for thrust.

Ah, so you mean less than or equal to .5 but more than .25 = add 2

[jacobmuller]

I've just been passing time for the last couple days playing with variations on formulae for the samething.
Decided on (ST-6) /4 for Sw and /8 for Th being the simplest (like yourself). Had a chart done out that used an idea like T-Bone's but Th for ST 10 was still 1d-2. Fiddly but it was done out up to ST400...
Insanity is occasionally useful; spreadsheets do things like ST*0.45-3/3.5 so much faster. but nothing beats simple.

[zoncxs]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

I've just been passing time for the last couple days playing with variations on formulae for the samething.
Decided on (ST-6) /4 for Sw and /8 for Th being the simplest. Had a chart done out that used an idea like T-Bone's but Th for ST 10 was still 1d-2. Fiddly but it was done out up to ST400...
Insanity is occasionally useful.

even simpler! see what having sleep and showing others your work can do?

so yeah, your formula is cleaner than mine, but the same.

[Ejidoth]

Here's what I've been using for, uh...
*checks the date on the file*
...just under two years, apparently.

THRUST
For a given ST...
...if ST is 1, damage is 1d-5
...if ST is 2-3, damage is 1d-4
...if ST is 4-5, damage is 1d-3
...if ST is 6-8, damage is 1d-2
...if ST is 9-12, damage is 1d-1
...if ST is 13-14, damage is 1d
...if ST is 15 or more, every 15 ST converts to 1d damage. Make note of the remainder.
For the remainder...
...if remainder is 0-2, damage is +0
...if remainder is 3-6, damage is +1
...if remainder is 7-9, damage is +2
...if remainder is 10-12, damage is +1d-1
...if remainder is 13-14, damage is +1d

SWING
For a given ST...
...if ST is 1, damage is 1d-5
...if ST is 2, damage is 1d-4
...if ST is 3, damage is 1d-3
...if ST is 4-5, damage is 1d-2
...if ST is 6-8, damage is 1d-1
...if ST is 9, damage is 1d
...if ST is 10 or more, every 10 ST converts to 1d damage. Make note of the remainder.
For the remainder...
...if remainder is 0-1, damage is +0
...if remainder is 2-4, damage is +1
...if remainder is 5-6, damage is +2
...if remainder is 7-8, damage is +1d-1
...if remainder is 9, damage is +1d


I think I've posted this before somewhere.
If you use this you have to drop the price of ST and Striking ST by 2 or 3 points.
(I went with dropping it by just 2 on the basis that it's fairly easy to get damage boosts to ST-based attacks via various skills, advantages, and combat techniques, so the damage is really higher than it looks; dropping it by 3 gives you something more balanced for the assumption that the damage won't be boosted like that)

The main reason I did this was for scaling. I can use this system to run games with giants and pixies and such, and shift scales just by multiplying. Decade-scale ST 10 doing decade-scale damage does the same damage output, roughly, as normal-scale ST 100 doing normal-scale damage, etc.