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Old 11-24-2011, 05:43 PM   #11
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Default Re: [LT] Question about Greathelms

A scale helmet? That sounds like the <random material><random item> combinations of games like Might & Magic. (Not talking about scale neck protection, of course) Was there ever such a beast, for any helmet variant?
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Old 11-24-2011, 05:45 PM   #12
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Default Re: [LT] Question about Greathelms

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A scale helmet? That sounds like the <random material><random item> combinations of games like Might & Magic. (Not talking about scale neck protection, of course) Was there ever such a beast, for any helmet variant?
You'd probably prefer to call it a "coif" or "hood", rather than a helmet, but you can certainly make head protection out of scale, as much as mail, or leather, or padded cloth, or layered paper, or etc.

Not every combination of materials makes sense for any given type of head protection - a mail greathelm makes about as much sense as a solid plate coif after all.
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Old 11-24-2011, 05:56 PM   #13
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Default Re: [LT] Question about Greathelms

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You'd probably prefer to call it a "coif" or "hood", rather than a helmet, but you can certainly make head protection out of scale, as much as mail, or leather, or padded cloth, or layered paper, or etc.
Sure, pretty much any combination is possible in theory, but I meant whether that was actually done. A rigid helm + scale/mail aventail (or mail coif) would seem like a better idea, and who could do scale, but not that?

Edit: Not sure if that is historic…
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Old 11-24-2011, 07:46 PM   #14
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Default Re: [LT] Question about Greathelms

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A rigid helm + scale/mail aventail (or mail coif) would seem like a better idea, and who could do scale, but not that?
A rigid helm with a segmented plate rear neckguard is a "lobsterback" and common as dirt in TL4.
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Old 11-24-2011, 08:04 PM   #15
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Default Re: [LT] Question about Greathelms

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Sure, pretty much any combination is possible in theory, but I meant whether that was actually done. A rigid helm + scale/mail aventail (or mail coif) would seem like a better idea, and who could do scale, but not that?

Edit: Not sure if that is historic…
I think the greathelm emerged as a result of a narrow focus of heavily armored men on big horses using lances to stab each other in the face. They have a fairly narrow range of use, materials and composition. If you check out most great helms, they have very narrow eye slits, often with raised rims to increase protection. I haven't worn one, but I imagine they constrict vision and breathing. But if you have a shield that can cover much of your torso and a great helm, you can survive the initial charge, pull your great helm off and let it fall(many of them were chaiend to the armor or saddle), and now you have an open faced bascinet or pothelm?

Then they invented visors, and people were like "eff that".
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Old 11-24-2011, 09:18 PM   #16
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Default Re: [LT] Question about Greathelms

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A scale helmet? That sounds like the <random material><random item> combinations of games like Might & Magic. (Not talking about scale neck protection, of course) Was there ever such a beast, for any helmet variant?
I own two. One is made of boars tusk scales laced to a foundation of leather and felt - it is a replica of the one found at Mycenae. The other is a bronze reconstruction based on the bronze scales found at Nuzi and the descriptions in the texts found there.
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Old 11-25-2011, 01:38 AM   #17
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Default Re: [LT] Question about Greathelms

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I own two. One is made of boars tusk scales laced to a foundation of leather and felt - it is a replica of the one found at Mycenae. The other is a bronze reconstruction based on the bronze scales found at Nuzi and the descriptions in the texts found there.
Dan, are you saying that the boar tusk helmet was: a) made of interlocking plates of tusk tied together or b) a helmet worn over another rigid helmet?
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Old 11-25-2011, 04:29 AM   #18
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Default Re: [LT] Question about Greathelms

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Dan, are you saying that the boar tusk helmet was: a) made of interlocking plates of tusk tied together or b) a helmet worn over another rigid helmet?
He's talking about
1) a scale helmet - made of bone scales instead of steel scales
2) A scale helmet - made of bronze scales instead of steel scales
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Old 11-25-2011, 04:30 AM   #19
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Default Re: [LT] Question about Greathelms

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Dan, are you saying that the boar tusk helmet was: a) made of interlocking plates of tusk tied together or b) a helmet worn over another rigid helmet?
mcd asked "Was there ever such a beast, for any helmet variant?"
Yes there are plenty of examples of scale helmets. Low-Tech would class most of them as pot helms. I already said that greathelms were rare, even the regular iron plate ones. Instant Armor armor doesn't include greathelms made from anything other than plate.
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Old 11-25-2011, 06:32 AM   #20
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Default Re: [LT] Question about Greathelms

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The other is a bronze reconstruction based on the bronze scales found at Nuzi and the descriptions in the texts found there.
Thanks for the info. Looks quite interesting.
Anything post-Bronze age?
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