[LT] Question about Greathelms

[Phantasm]

Is there any historical evidence (either historical records or archeological) of greathelms being made with anything other than iron/steel plate? If so, what were they made from?

[mhd]

Funeral great helms often had crowns made of more precious metals, maybe there's one that was fully made of it (most of them were just thin iron). Considering when the great helm entered the historic arena, I highly doubt they used something other than steel for combat.

Edit: If I remember correctly, there were some leather helmets used for the Baston Course type of tourney. Not that great if your enemy isn't equipped with blunt wooden weapons, though…

[Bruno]

I suppose at least some of them might have been Spagenhelms (made of strips of iron or steel instead of plates...) but you seem interested in materials first and foremost.

Other than ceremonial grave goods, I actually don't really expect to find out about many ornamental greathelms. Ornamental armour is usually worn for public spectacles, and greathelms
a) conceal your face, so people can't see who the guy in the awesome armour is and
b) Are worn over another helmet, for hardcore protection, which is heavy, uncomfortable, and generally serious overkill for a public spectacle which
c) is probably going to go on for a long time without someone trying to shoot or axe you in the head, so why would you wear so much armor?

It's not quite as weird an idea as "ceremonial bomb disposal armor" or a "decorative ghili suit" but those are the modern comparisons that spring to mind.

[mhd]

Originally Posted by Bruno

It's not quite as weird an idea as "ceremonial bomb disposal armor" or a "decorative ghili suit" but those are the modern comparisons that spring to mind.

Well...

Don't know of this qualifies, either.

For decorative purposes you're already wearing something frickin' expensive. If you really want to be the cock of the walk, add some ludicrous helmet ornamentation on top of it (removable, of course). Crowns, plumes etc.

What other materials could there be? We're a bit too late TL-wise for bronze greathelms, although I don't think there's a technical reason against it. So this might work in a fantasy world, where this would be advisable for various reasons. Leather would be a bit silly if you expect to encounter steel weapons.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by mhd

Well...

Don't know of this qualifies, either.

.

The first makes me think that somebody's preparing for a Mardi Gras offensive. I'm sure it's not that hard to crawl through the trash along Bourbon Street without anyone noticing.

The second made me check how much it cost. $50. Darn.

[DanHoward]

Low-Tech defines a greathelm specifically as a large helmet designed to be worn over a smaller one. Most people are confusing greathelms with full helms and there are plenty of examples of full helms being made of other materials such as the wooden ones from north and south America

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Low-Tech defines a greathelm specifically as a large helmet designed to be worn over a smaller one. Most people are confusing greathelms with full helms and there are plenty of examples of full helms being made of other materials such as the wooden ones from north and south America

Exactly. Wearing a full helm is wearing a box or barrel or some other enclosed shape over your head.

Wearing a greathelm (as defined in Low Tech) involves wearing two boxes/barrels/whatever over your head. Which is why you can't see or hear crap, and in a gritty campaign should probably result in some extra FP loss due to poor ventilation slowly cooking your poor brains.

My next knightly character may have a shaved head just to help the sweat evaporate.

[Phantasm]

Actually, I was looking more for, "Is there historical precedent for making a greathealm from scale, brigandine, hardened leather, etc, as opposed to plate?" than "... from gold, silver, bronze, etc?"

[DanHoward]

Greathelm - no. full helm - yes. You don't see greathelms, even made of iron, anywhere except in a narrow period of time in Europe/Russia.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Greathelm - no. full helm - yes. You don't see greathelms, even made of iron, anywhere except in a narrow period of time in Europe/Russia.

That's what I thought, but I wanted to be sure. Thanks.