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Old 03-13-2019, 11:23 AM   #401
johndallman
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Default Re: Antarctic Space Nazis Across the Multiverse

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
At worst, it might be possible to use the same power for mooring and off-loading operations as they use for the AA searchlights. After all, they'd never try mooring or off-loading under combat conditions anyway. Granted, they'd need lights for ordinary mooring and off-loading, but probably not with as much range as AA searchlights.
You need quite a bit of electrical equipment. I found power requirements for 24" carbon-arc searchlights, which are about 12KW each. Those are fairly small searchlights, but you are not dealing with high-altitude bombers here, so they're probably adequate.

Unfortunately, they need their power as direct current, about 100 volts, 120 amps. That means you need a homopolar generator to drive them, and that pushes you towards an all-DC setup. You don't have to transmit power long distances, so this is acceptable.

You want to have at least 100KW of generating capacity, and a homopolar generator isn't very efficient. If you're willing to use mercury electrodes and have a great big bank of lead-acid accumulators, which need to be kept warm, you can probably get away with a 300KW turbine to drive it, which will need about 1MW of Elemental Furnace to heat its boiler. You have no problem with a heat sink, anyway. This is a lot more stuff to transport to Kadath, and will need at least four mechanics/electricians to look after it 24/7.

You probably use incandescent lamps for your normal lighting, because carbon arcs are hard on people's eyes (lots of UV) and consume their electrodes fast enough that lamps come with machinery to adjust them continuously. They actually work by generating enough heat to evaporate graphite, and the carbon gas glows blue-white.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:31 PM   #402
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Default Re: Antarctic Space Nazis Across the Multiverse

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You need quite a bit of electrical equipment. I found power requirements for 24" carbon-arc searchlights, which are about 12KW each. Those are fairly small searchlights, but you are not dealing with high-altitude bombers here, so they're probably adequate.

Unfortunately, they need their power as direct current, about 100 volts, 120 amps. That means you need a homopolar generator to drive them, and that pushes you towards an all-DC setup. You don't have to transmit power long distances, so this is acceptable.

You want to have at least 100KW of generating capacity, and a homopolar generator isn't very efficient. If you're willing to use mercury electrodes and have a great big bank of lead-acid accumulators, which need to be kept warm, you can probably get away with a 300KW turbine to drive it, which will need about 1MW of Elemental Furnace to heat its boiler. You have no problem with a heat sink, anyway. This is a lot more stuff to transport to Kadath, and will need at least four mechanics/electricians to look after it 24/7.

You probably use incandescent lamps for your normal lighting, because carbon arcs are hard on people's eyes (lots of UV) and consume their electrodes fast enough that lamps come with machinery to adjust them continuously. They actually work by generating enough heat to evaporate graphite, and the carbon gas glows blue-white.
Hmmm... Elemental Furnaces (TL5^) of the type they'll be using get 0.05 kW/kg as generators. In other words, that's the useful power it generates and the weight is counting everything needed to convert the magical enchantment into useful electricity. I mean, I got these numbers by taking a GURPS Spaceships power module and converting Power Points into kW for some arbitrary size vehicle.

Sure, this is an abstraction that probably reflects some kind of average. Most likely there are size ranges of Elemental Furnaces that are more efficient than others. And I suspect that some tasks require less machinery to convert the interactions between the bound elementals into useful work and others require more. For example, I figure using the technology Elemental Furnaces are based on just to make furnaces to heat up something, you'd need far less machinery per kW of heat than if you wanted to get a steady current ojt of it.

But for running devices with an Elemental Furnace designed explicitly for that current, you should not need a seperate generator, turbine, boiler, etc. The Elemental Furnace consists of these things + the bound elementals that drive them. Most of the weight is in the parts that turn the magical interactions of bound elementals into usable power, not in the enchantments themselves. So 0.05 kW/kg of Elemental Furnances should be the power we have available to power any devices that require electricity.

For simpler contraptions relying on Elemental Furnaces, the power to weight ratio is probably better. At least for simply heating an area, it would inevitably be almost 100% efficient just to bind a fire elemental, which means that not much weight would be required, only a magical container. It's still fantastically expensive, which is why most Elemental Furnaces are more sophisticated devices than this, use a reaction between a fire elemental and an air or water one, not to mention incorporate some form of machinery to carry out work that is designed for whatever function it is meant for.

I imagine that the Elemental Furnaces at Kadath will be electrical generators, though a few simpler heating devices might not be out of the question.
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Old 03-13-2019, 05:38 PM   #403
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Unfortunately, they need their power as direct current, about 100 volts, 120 amps. That means you need a homopolar generator to drive them, and that pushes you towards an all-DC setup. You don't have to transmit power long distances, so this is acceptable.
Dynamos with commutators can be used instead, or AC generators with rectifiers, such as the mercury-arc rectifier.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:50 PM   #404
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I imagine that the Elemental Furnaces at Kadath will be electrical generators, though a few simpler heating devices might not be out of the question.
Fair enough, although an all-DC system is an interesting detail.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:04 PM   #405
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Fair enough, although an all-DC system is an interesting detail.
It is indeed.

How many kW of power would the ASNs want for Kadath Base as a whole? Ballpark?

Obviously, while they are not at peak requirements, the Kadavergehorsamer would be siphoning any reserve (and a lot more warmth than the personnel likes, albeit short of crippling operations).
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Old 03-15-2019, 01:01 AM   #406
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How many kW of power would the ASNs want for Kadath Base as a whole? Ballpark?
100KW to operate enough searchlights for aerial engagements. Maybe 250KW for the whole base.

I've realised something else they need. With it being night all the time, aerial attacks being one of the major threats, and searchlights actually being very bad for keeping a whole-sky watch (as well as shouting "we're here, come and attack us!"), they need radar. They really need it on the airship, too, but that's harder. I'll see if I can find something appropriate.
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Old 03-15-2019, 03:02 AM   #407
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100KW to operate enough searchlights for aerial engagements. Maybe 250KW for the whole base.
That's not so bad. That's only around 5.5 short tons of Elemental Furnaces. We can no doubt add a few tons to power radar, as that only implies that the pace of cargo shipments remained high even after the base was operational as an airship mooring station.

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I've realised something else they need. With it being night all the time, aerial attacks being one of the major threats, and searchlights actually being very bad for keeping a whole-sky watch (as well as shouting "we're here, come and attack us!"), they need radar. They really need it on the airship, too, but that's harder. I'll see if I can find something appropriate.
Ooh, that sounds cool!

From Wikipedia and absolutely no prior knowledge of German WWII radar; the Tiefentwiel, Jagdwagen and Marbach systems all sound like they were meant for a role close to what Kadath Base needs.
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Old 03-15-2019, 04:13 AM   #408
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100KW to operate enough searchlights for aerial engagements. Maybe 250KW for the whole base.

I've realised something else they need. With it being night all the time, aerial attacks being one of the major threats, and searchlights actually being very bad for keeping a whole-sky watch (as well as shouting "we're here, come and attack us!"), they need radar. They really need it on the airship, too, but that's harder. I'll see if I can find something appropriate.
I had been explicitly leaving out RADAR, because (1) it was high-tech and in demand in the old Reich and far beyond the new Reich's capacity to build and maintain, and (2) that makes a TPK even more likely, especially if it is accurate enough to lay guns.

Also, I am not sure how well it would work on flying beasts.

I am sure they could fit a few of the models designed to be mounted on a Schnorkel or a Me-110 on porters through the World Tree, but I don't know how suitable those are for air defence.

If the sky pirates robbed the space nazis of an AA gun etc., but they don't know about Kadath Base, where did they steal it?
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:21 AM   #409
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I had been explicitly leaving out RADAR, because (1) it was high-tech and in demand in the old Reich and far beyond the new Reich's capacity to build and maintain
Perhaps they went back to using war tubas? Incidentally, a network of microphones or listening tubes through the ice might be an early warning network for ghoul attacks, as well.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:36 AM   #410
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I had been explicitly leaving out RADAR, because (1) it was high-tech and in demand in the old Reich and far beyond the new Reich's capacity to build and maintain, and (2) that makes a TPK even more likely, especially if it is accurate enough to lay guns.

Also, I am not sure how well it would work on flying beasts.

I am sure they could fit a few of the models designed to be mounted on a Schnorkel or a Me-110 on porters through the World Tree, but I don't know how suitable those are for air defence.
The ASNs obviously took all plans and blueprints for radars along, because they had access to them and microfilm doesn't weight very much, but you are right in that they would not have seen much need for such technology in the early years of settlement.

Granted, some of the technicians and engineers from Zeppelin Werke that were part of the original ASN settlement had previously worked on radars (the company made the large disks), but most of them would have died or at least retired before the ASNs were at anything like the infrastructure levels required to make new radars.

On the other hand, I don't know how much work is involved in making new small radars that fit in airships and can be used for air defence against low-flying threats. Fifty years is a long time and the ASNs may not be up to WWII numbers and infrastructure yet, but they do have significant resources.

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If the sky pirates robbed the space nazis of an AA gun etc., but they don't know about Kadath Base, where did they steal it?
Good question. The sky pirates of the Rocinante actually robbed the Men of Leng, not even knowing about the fact that they were now effectively a 'protectorate' of the outworldler Antarctic Space Nazis.

To my shame, I can't recall if the Rocinante obtained its illicit cargo in Inquanok or another port on the Cerenarian Sea. In any event, the ASNs were trying out the possibility of arming the black galleys* of the Men of Leng with heavier weaponry than AT rifles and MG42s, in the event of an all-out war with the White Riders.

*Obviously, only those black galleys which the ASNs effectively controlled and which had 'military advisors' from them aboard at all times.
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