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Old 02-16-2019, 11:21 AM   #321
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Default Re: Antarctic Space Nazi Outpost in Unknown Kadath, Plateau of Leng, Dreamlands

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However, the staircase presumably takes a bite out of the top area? 10 metres diameter OK?
Sure, that's fine. As long as it looks adequately unsettling, alien and ancient, ideally with a dash of Nicholas Roerich artwork and a heavy dose of Lovecraft-ian descriptions of ancient lost cities in Central Asia, Antarctica or the Dreamlands. Roerich's art (there are also other, even more disquieting paintings that would be appropriate inspiration, but I only have them on a hard drive) was a great influence on At the Mountains of Madness and the protagonist mentions his name several times to try to describe the sights at the unnamed city in the mountains at the center of Antarctica.

Also, I imagined less a comfortable staircase as part of the original design and more an almost vertical climb up steps and (hand? claw? tentacle?)-holds cut into the ever so faintly tapering side. Presumably the elder designers used lifts or something for regular use* and the ASNs would be well served by an external staircase and cargo lifts.

*In fact, I suppose that there ought to be some indent or pathway in the side of the pillar where a lift might fit, either located next to the steps and handholds in the pillar or at the opposite side.
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:37 AM   #322
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Default Re: Antarctic Space Nazi Outpost in Unknown Kadath, Plateau of Leng, Dreamlands

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As long as it looks adequately unsettling, alien and ancient . . .

In fact, I suppose that there ought to be some indent or pathway in the side of the pillar where a lift might fit, either located next to the steps and handholds in the pillar or at the opposite side.
I'm gradually making sense of this. It's clear that the whole setup will have to be pre-fabricated, for assembly by unskilled labour with some skilled supervision, and with a standard winch design for the crane, lift, mooring mast, and anchor car.

Some special material for the winch cables would be really useful. I'm really doubtful about low-temperature steel for something that has to flex so much.

What's the normal weight limit for parts of this setup? If it's 400lb, there will be a lot of parts.
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:52 AM   #323
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Default Re: Antarctic Space Nazi Outpost in Unknown Kadath, Plateau of Leng, Dreamlands

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I'm gradually making sense of this. It's clear that the whole setup will have to be pre-fabricated, for assembly by unskilled labour with some skilled supervision, and with a standard winch design for the crane, lift, mooring mast, and anchor car.
Cool, great, thanks.
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Some special material for the winch cables would be really useful. I'm really doubtful about low-temperature steel for something that has to flex so much.
Well, at the industrial infrastructure the ASNs are at, there comes a point where alchemical or rune-crafted steel of TL3^ to TL5^ is simply cheaper than extremely custom, higher than their industry can usually handle TL7 alloys, anyway.

Assume that you can modify various material properties by +/- 30% of some kind of strength pretty trivially for the whole structure, if you want, that giving an alloy that is chosen for good performance under ordinary circumstances Temperature Tolerance (Cold) is possible for as much as you need and that more dramatic alterations could be done for smaller parts if absolutely vital.
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What's the normal weight limit for parts of this setup? If it's 400lb, there will be a lot of parts.
Well, anything under a ton will be easy and five tons will just demand that the Mi-gö and staff at Kadath take more time to handle if after the cargo airship leaves.

Let's say five tons are a good upper limit.
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:57 PM   #324
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Default Re: Antarctic Space Nazis Across the Multiverse

For the winches chanted rope might make more sense than steel. It's probably easier to enchant natural fibre rope/cable to stay strong and flexible in extreme cold than steel. On the other hand, if they're already enchanting steel for the cold by the ton, what's a few hundred kilos more?
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:17 PM   #325
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Default Re: Antarctic Space Nazis Across the Multiverse

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For the winches chanted rope might make more sense than steel. It's probably easier to enchant natural fibre rope/cable to stay strong and flexible in extreme cold than steel. ?
It is, though the relative bonus only translates into the natural fibre having about 50% more energy of RPM rituals on them for the same time investment by the magician.

Is that going to be enough to get cables of natural fibre to match the strength of steel cables?
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On the other hand, if they're already enchanting steel for the cold by the ton, what's a few hundred kilos more?
Usually, a huge expense, in terms of the valuable time of magic-users of enough power to enchant items or materials on a sustained basis, that the Ahnenerbe would be extremely reluctant to commit to without some major gain in view.

For this expedition, though, alchemist, enchanter, magewright and runesmith support has been extremely available. While only a couple of fairly modestly powerful individuals and a few more apprentices were available as airship crew and the ground element for Kadath base, literally dozens of powerful Ahnenerbe masters were willing to devote weeks of work to provide magical support from afar.

Of course, the four Parsifal-class zeppelins are extremely prestigious and valued vehicles crewed by an intrepid elite, the social equivalents to the Appollo moon missions in US society in the 60s to the ASNs. Just by devoting one of them to the mission the ASN leadership made it clear to those in the know about the secret tasking that this world was one of extreme importance and its exploration vital to ASN interests.

Only the high level of secrecy keeps the base from being a much bigger and better apointed affair, but as the senior levels of the Ahnenerbe already know about the expedition (indeed, it seems that the Ahnenerbe proposed it and was able to get the zeppelin Amfortas assigned on the strength of their influence over senior SS leadership), it seems that even vast amounts of magical support don't compromise the secrecy the way assigning more military and logistics assets to the expedition would.
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:48 AM   #326
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Default Waffen-SS Gebirgsjäger in Ice Caves and Tunnels

The ASNs do not routinely operate in arctic conditions. Indeed, over the fifty years since they left Earth, this is probably their first sustained expedition in arctic conditions.

The closest the ASNs get to military formations trained for such extreme conditions are Waffen-SS Gebirgsjäger ('Mountain Rangers') and any airborne commandos of the Jagdverbande with a background in alpine or mountain units. These usually operate in terrain equivalent to the Alps or lower mountain ranges like the Erzgebirge, the Sudenten, the Harz or the Rhenish Massif.

How much of the skill set of mountain troops is applicable to operating in, patroling and setting up defenses for a maze of confusing caves and tunnels in ice?

Would there be any advantage to a unit of allied specialists in TL5^ tunnel warfare, if those experts were exclusively used to caves and tunnels of stone and Earth, not ice?

I'm trying to figure out how the ASNs set up defences against ghouls or other threats that might find their way through the confusing maze of caves and tunnels below Kadath. Closing off tunnels is apparently not enough, as it seems that despite no one ever seeing the ice shiting, new ways are nevertheless periodically found. This may be because any magic manipulating ice is so easy to perform* at this Place of Power than even subconscious desires of the ghouls might suffice to reshape the tunnel system while no one is looking.

There don't seem to be any good WWII 'front-toward enemy' directional anti-personnel mines for the ASNs to copy, but they'll certainly want to use explosives they can trigger as the first step of any underground base defence. Iron or steel ball bearings would be nice, as ghouls may not care one way or another, but it would greatly enhance the effectiveness against anything fey, like the White Riders and their ice spiders.

What ought the salient feature of ASN underground defenses be, in case the PCs try to be sneaky and subtle?

*It's at +8 for both gathering energy and casting, making even untrained use by non-mages practical, with the slight caveat that any failure is a critical failure.
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Old 02-21-2019, 04:05 PM   #327
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Default Re: Industrial Chemistry, part 1

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So we need to have coke production of about 0.2% of Earth's coke production in 1910. That's quite a bit. However, producing heat is a win in itself for the ASN, because their supernatural patrons demand it. I can't find, so far, details of the historical process for extracting ammonia, but it was practical in 1900-1910.
You get about 3kg of ammonia per tonne of coal, varying a bit with the coal you used (2.75 to 3.25). There were plenty of efforts to improve the yield, but they never got anywhere before the Haber-Bosch process took over.

You need calcium hydroxide, ammonium sulphate and sulphuric acid to extract the ammonia, which comes out as more ammonium sulphate.

We already have calcium hydroxide and sulphuric acid, but they'll need a starting charge of ammonium sulphate, which will have been brought over as a dry bulk chemical. Bring tons of the stuff.
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Old 02-21-2019, 05:03 PM   #328
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Default Re: Industrial Chemistry, part 1

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You get about 3kg of ammonia per tonne of coal, varying a bit with the coal you used (2.75 to 3.25). There were plenty of efforts to improve the yield, but they never got anywhere before the Haber-Bosch process took over.

You need calcium hydroxide, ammonium sulphate and sulphuric acid to extract the ammonia, which comes out as more ammonium sulphate.

We already have calcium hydroxide and sulphuric acid, but they'll need a starting charge of ammonium sulphate, which will have been brought over as a dry bulk chemical. Bring tons of the stuff.
Fair enough.

I assume this will mean a healthy supply of ammonia per capita, everything being powered by coal.

I assume that 19th century steam engines gave way to steam turbines generating electricity at some point and gas combustion turbines may have supplemented these, if that's practical (maybe cleaner, for more prestigious urban areas of Germania Hyperborea).

Care to guess at approximate years after settlement the ASNs have proper electrical power plants of each type, rather than merely powering mechanical steam engines with their coal?
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Old 02-21-2019, 05:46 PM   #329
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Default Re: Industrial Chemistry, part 1

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Care to guess at approximate years after settlement the ASNs have proper electrical power plants of each type, rather than merely powering mechanical steam engines with their coal?
Let me learn more about steel mills before I answer that question.
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Old 02-21-2019, 05:48 PM   #330
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Default Re: Industrial Chemistry, part 1

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Let me learn more about steel mills before I answer that question.
Fair enough.

And many thanks for your willing research.
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