Rate of Fire on a Binding Attack?

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Molokh

ST 120 webbing. 6×20==120.

The book is pretty clear that each extra layer adds +1 ST, not +Binding Level ST.

Originally Posted by Molokh

Otherwise you get silly results like two identical ST 100 spideys cooperating and only increasing their effectiveness by 1% (assuming RoF 1).

Once you slap a bunch of gooey threads on, adding more isn't going to help a great deal more - there's simply a point of diminishing returns here. Basically, think of the initiatial level of Binding as defining the inherent "strength" of the binding material. Extra layers of Binding after that are simply adding more anchor points, not increasing the inherent strength of the material holding someone down.
Now, if two different Binding abilities, with different STs, were used on someone in succession, I'd probably allow a stronger Binding to "replace" a weaker one.

Originally Posted by Molokh

Also encourages buying ST 1 Bindings unless you figure original ST into layering.

How so? If all you buy is a ST 1 Binding, it will take forever to generate a binding of any useful ST, even with an obscene RoF. Whereas if you start with a ST 25 Binding, you have a very solid chance of pinning an opponent down long enough that further layers of Binding will actually prove usefull.

[HeroPenguin]

Originally Posted by Molokh

ST 120 webbing. 6×20==120. Otherwise you get silly results like two identical ST 100 spideys cooperating and only increasing their effectiveness by 1% (assuming RoF 1). Also encourages buying ST 1 Bindings unless you figure original ST into layering.

Grappling does something similar. Only the best ST applies, and all the others use a mere 1/5th of their ST as a bonus. This is found right at the top right of p.392 of Campaigns, so your old Martial Arts complaint holds no water here, Molokh. ;P In any case, you ABSOLUTELY DO NOT use full ST for additional layers, with or without the sources being identical.

Makai, DR affects Binding the same that it affects grappling. In no appreciable fashion, unless the Binding has a constricting effect or a linked damaging portion, in which case it provides normal protection from the damage. As a personal note, if the binding is sticky, I'd allow the armor to be removed to allow the person inside to escape quicker, provided they could move enough to slip out in the first place. Otherwise, the sticky residue of the binding would remain on the armor, and would probably be the source of MUCH amusement and inconvenience in the hands of an attentive and cruel GM.

And could you imagine the pranks? One eviscerated down pillow later, "Oh look, it's the Chicken Knight!"

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

How so? If all you buy is a ST 1 Binding, it will take forever to generate a binding of any useful ST, even with an obscene RoF. Whereas if you start with a ST 25 Binding, you have a very solid chance of pinning an opponent down long enough that further layers of Binding will actually prove usefull.

RoF 300. Are Effect 512yds (9 levels). Selective Area. TOTAL: 18pts.

[vicky_molokh]

Static +1ST layers also cause a scaling problem:

Two insects binding each other with ST 1 and Binding 1 get enormous advantages out of layering and RoF.

Two mecha with ST 100 and Binding 100 could as well take One-Shot non-stacking, as the difference between ST 100 and ST 101 is negligible.

[makai]

Originally Posted by Molokh

RoF 300. Are Effect 512yds (9 levels). Selective Area. TOTAL: 18pts.

what would that do exactly?

[PK]

Originally Posted by makai

what would that do exactly?

Nothing special -- you'd get a big bonus to hit, plus the extra +3 or so for targeting an area, and you'd probably layer everyone with a dozen or so strands pretty easily.

Molokh seems to be thinking that Area Effect means every single shot hits automatically (at least, if I'm understanding his post right), but that's not the case.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Molokh

ST 120 webbing. 6×20==120. Otherwise you get silly results like two identical ST 100 spideys cooperating and only increasing their effectiveness by 1% (assuming RoF 1). Also encourages buying ST 1 Bindings unless you figure original ST into layering.

Well, that's something you'll need to take up with Sean and David, because that's exactly how it works in the RAW. The rules are very explicit about this.

[PK]

Originally Posted by makai

How does DR affect a binding attack?

It doesn't, in any way.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by Molokh

RoF 300. Are Effect 512yds (9 levels). Selective Area. TOTAL: 18pts.

That "problem" exists whether you have +1/layer or +Level/layer. In fact, at Binding ST 1 they work EXACTLY THE SAME - each extra layer adds +1 to ST. Your "fix" doesn't fix the problem you're citing.

Originally Posted by Molokh

Static +1ST layers also cause a scaling problem:

Then maybe it should be +1/5 ST per layer, like grappling. But adding the full Binding Level per layer encourages purchasing Rapid Fire, since each +1 RoF costs less than increasing the Binding Level by the corresponding amount.

[HeroPenguin]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

Then maybe it should be +1/5 ST per layer, like grappling.

I'd sign to this. As a matter of fact, I really don't know why that isn't the default. It certainly doesn't make much sense for cooperative grappling between multiple assailants, which opens up a whole can of worms in terms of proper coordination and using complimentary grapples to be MORE effective than additional, separate levels of a completely inanimate mobility detriment.

Any insights to this aspect? Any good reason why 1/5th ST couldn't be used instead and make grappling consistent all over?