Multiple hits from one targeted attack.

mushroom911 · 10-28-2016, 04:22 PM

I absolutely love the GURPS system, because it has a thing for practically anything, you can run any session without buying a super niche rulebook for that one time period. Also people aren't DND bulletsponges.

One thing that I have always found hard to justify is that if you, say, use target vitals with a machine gun and score 3-4 hits, they all hit vitals.
Is there no optional rule set so that they could possibly land in both torso/vitals or something like that?

Another example, you use a submachinegun to target the arm at -2, you score 5 hits and they all hit the arm. At 5yds this makes sense, at 30yds it doesn't. So how do I go about this?

Ed: I am aware of the tactical shooting thing on Mozambique drills (Quick shot technique)

mushroom911 · 10-28-2016, 04:56 PM

I would very much like to be able to make that work with the single attack roll.

So say you have skill guns:submachinegun-20 and shoot at a bloke's vitals at 30m (-7) with your 3rcl mp5 after aiming (+3) and fire off 8 rounds for that juicy +2 rapid fire bonus, totalling a -5. You roll a 9, he takes 3 hits to the vitals, and is completely unscathed everywhere else.

What would make sense to me is if the first one or two rounds hit vitals, but everything up to the margin of an unmodified roll hit somewhere else with a random hit loc or something.

Ed: unmodified as in untargeted, but counting other penalties/bonuses

Erling · 10-28-2016, 07:04 PM

If it's important for you, treat only first hit as the one which has hit intended location, then roll for random hit location for the other hits (one roll for all hits or one roll per hit, depending on level of detail you want to have). No, it's not RAW, but GURPS is about tinkering with the rules.

BTW, skill-20 is a VERY high skill, that of a best shooter of entire generation. Which is, of course, totally OK for an action-style game.

Captain Joy · 10-28-2016, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erling

If it's important for you, treat only first hit as the one which has hit intended location, then roll for random hit location for the other hits (one roll for all hits or one roll per hit, depending on level of detail you want to have).

I like Erling's suggestion. I might go

Hits target
Random locations until you get a torso hit, then all the rest are torso hits

Gigermann · 10-28-2016, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Joy

I like Erling's suggestion. I might go

Random locations until you get a torso hit, then all the rest are torso hits

Most random hits will be to the torso anyway due to the bell-curve, so that's probably not necessary.

McAllister · 10-29-2016, 03:39 AM

If you think too many shots are hitting the target location and they should spread out, take the advice of someone else in the thread.

However, if your problem is that the shots hit ONLY the specific target, and you'd like to add some additional hits elsewhere (and you also think rapid fire rules are stingy with how many shots hit out of a large burst), here's Douglas Cole's solution:

After you fire a burst at a target, hitting with some bullets and missing with the rest, count how many missed. Then, use Suppressing Fire to shoot the rest of the person with those shots: which is to say, roll a second attack at skill 9 (minus range, plus RoF bonus), and any of THOSE shots that hit will strike a random location.

After all, if your SMG skill is good enough that you're putting multiple shots on target with a -9 penalty (-7 range, -2 arm), you know what? I'm fine with you managing to land all of them in the arm. You earned it. Maybe you sprinkle a couple more across the torso or other parts. At least, that's how I see it.

mushroom911 · 10-29-2016, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McAllister

After you fire a burst at a target, hitting with some bullets and missing with the rest, count how many missed. Then, use Suppressing Fire to shoot the rest of the person with those shots: which is to say, roll a second attack at skill 9 (minus range, plus RoF bonus), and any of THOSE shots that hit will strike a random location.

This is a really good solution, Thank you all for responding, this community is amazing :)

Kelly Pedersen · 10-29-2016, 12:55 PM

Here's an alternate suggestion that does only use one roll: When aiming at a hit location and firing multiple shots, when calculating how many hit, use the hit location's penalty as the Recoil, if it's higher than the weapon's Recoil (so, if aiming at the vitals, the effective Rcl would be 3, while if aiming at the eyes, it would be 9. As soon as a bullet wouldn't hit due to the margin not meeting the recoil, find the next largest hit location that contains the original target: eyes are within the face, vitals within the torso, hands and feet "within" the limbs, and other locations default to the torso. If the remaining margin is enough to hit that location, again using the hit location's penalty as the recoil if it's higher than the weapon's, the next bullet hits there. Otherwise, check the next location "out" (usually the torso at that point). Continue this process until the margin runs out, or all the bullets fired have hit.

So, for example, a super-accurate shooter is aiming at her target's eye (-9). She's firing a Walther P99, with RoF 3 and Rcl 2. She hits, with a margin of 13 (we'll assume the target doesn't dodge). The first bullet hits the eye, of course. For the second bullet, her effective Rcl is 9 (the penalty for the eye). Since she's so good, it still hits the eye. For the third bullet, however, there's only 4 margin of success left. That's not enough for the eye. We move to the face, but that's -5, so it's still not enough. Now we move to the torso. That -0, so we use the gun's normal Rcl of 2. The last shot hits the torso. If she had shot something with RoF of 4, she would have even had enough margin to put that last bullet into the torso too.

DouglasCole · 10-29-2016, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Here's an alternate suggestion that does only use one roll: When aiming at a hit location and firing multiple shots, when calculating how many hit, use the hit location's penalty as the Recoil, if it's higher than the weapon's Recoil (so, if aiming at the vitals, the effective Rcl would be 3, while if aiming at the eyes, it would be 9. As soon as a bullet wouldn't hit due to the margin not meeting the recoil, find the next largest hit location that contains the original target: eyes are within the face, vitals within the torso, hands and feet "within" the limbs, and other locations default to the torso. If the remaining margin is enough to hit that location, again using the hit location's penalty as the recoil if it's higher than the weapon's, the next bullet hits there. Otherwise, check the next location "out" (usually the torso at that point). Continue this process until the margin runs out, or all the bullets fired have hit.

So, for example, a super-accurate shooter is aiming at her target's eye (-9). She's firing a Walther P99, with RoF 3 and Rcl 2. She hits, with a margin of 13 (we'll assume the target doesn't dodge). The first bullet hits the eye, of course. For the second bullet, her effective Rcl is 9 (the penalty for the eye). Since she's so good, it still hits the eye. For the third bullet, however, there's only 4 margin of success left. That's not enough for the eye. We move to the face, but that's -5, so it's still not enough. Now we move to the torso. That -0, so we use the gun's normal Rcl of 2. The last shot hits the torso. If she had shot something with RoF of 4, she would have even had enough margin to put that last bullet into the torso too.

A lot of what-if involved there, but I like it. I'm thinking of a graphical way to do this, and I think I have one. Put torso in the middle, then in five directions, put nested locations. Torso/neck/face/brain/eye; Torso/arm/hand/joints (twice); Torso/leg/upper leg/lower leg/knee/foot (twice).

Then start at the aimed location, and move closer and closer to torso until you run out of penalties, as you describe.

Kelly Pedersen · 10-29-2016, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

I'm thinking of a graphical way to do this, and I think I have one. Put torso in the middle, then in five directions, put nested locations. Torso/neck/face/brain/eye; Torso/arm/hand/joints (twice); Torso/leg/upper leg/lower leg/knee/foot (twice).

Yeah, that's a good way to describe it. Also, I forgot the Neck! That should definitely go between Face and Torso. As an added complication (like we need that! :-) ), I'd say that the Face is only between Skull and Neck from the front. From the back, it goes "Skull/neck/torso".

10-28-2016, 04:22 PM	#1
mushroom911 Join Date: Oct 2016	Multiple hits from one targeted attack. I absolutely love the GURPS system, because it has a thing for practically anything, you can run any session without buying a super niche rulebook for that one time period. Also people aren't DND bulletsponges. One thing that I have always found hard to justify is that if you, say, use target vitals with a machine gun and score 3-4 hits, they all hit vitals. Is there no optional rule set so that they could possibly land in both torso/vitals or something like that? Another example, you use a submachinegun to target the arm at -2, you score 5 hits and they all hit the arm. At 5yds this makes sense, at 30yds it doesn't. So how do I go about this? Ed: I am aware of the tactical shooting thing on Mozambique drills (Quick shot technique)

10-28-2016, 04:56 PM	#2
mushroom911 Join Date: Oct 2016	Re: Multiple hits from one targeted attack. I would very much like to be able to make that work with the single attack roll. So say you have skill guns:submachinegun-20 and shoot at a bloke's vitals at 30m (-7) with your 3rcl mp5 after aiming (+3) and fire off 8 rounds for that juicy +2 rapid fire bonus, totalling a -5. You roll a 9, he takes 3 hits to the vitals, and is completely unscathed everywhere else. What would make sense to me is if the first one or two rounds hit vitals, but everything up to the margin of an unmodified roll hit somewhere else with a random hit loc or something. Ed: unmodified as in untargeted, but counting other penalties/bonuses Last edited by mushroom911; 10-28-2016 at 04:59 PM.

10-28-2016, 07:04 PM	#3
Erling Join Date: Sep 2014	Re: Multiple hits from one targeted attack. If it's important for you, treat only first hit as the one which has hit intended location, then roll for random hit location for the other hits (one roll for all hits or one roll per hit, depending on level of detail you want to have). No, it's not RAW, but GURPS is about tinkering with the rules. BTW, skill-20 is a VERY high skill, that of a best shooter of entire generation. Which is, of course, totally OK for an action-style game. __________________ When in deadly danger, When beset by doubt, Run in little circles, Wave your arms and shout.

10-29-2016, 03:39 AM	#6
McAllister Join Date: Jun 2013	Re: Multiple hits from one targeted attack. If you think too many shots are hitting the target location and they should spread out, take the advice of someone else in the thread. However, if your problem is that the shots hit ONLY the specific target, and you'd like to add some additional hits elsewhere (and you also think rapid fire rules are stingy with how many shots hit out of a large burst), here's Douglas Cole's solution: After you fire a burst at a target, hitting with some bullets and missing with the rest, count how many missed. Then, use Suppressing Fire to shoot the rest of the person with those shots: which is to say, roll a second attack at skill 9 (minus range, plus RoF bonus), and any of THOSE shots that hit will strike a random location. After all, if your SMG skill is good enough that you're putting multiple shots on target with a -9 penalty (-7 range, -2 arm), you know what? I'm fine with you managing to land all of them in the arm. You earned it. Maybe you sprinkle a couple more across the torso or other parts. At least, that's how I see it.

10-29-2016, 12:55 PM	#8
Kelly Pedersen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada	Re: Multiple hits from one targeted attack. Here's an alternate suggestion that does only use one roll: When aiming at a hit location and firing multiple shots, when calculating how many hit, use the hit location's penalty as the Recoil, if it's higher than the weapon's Recoil (so, if aiming at the vitals, the effective Rcl would be 3, while if aiming at the eyes, it would be 9. As soon as a bullet wouldn't hit due to the margin not meeting the recoil, find the next largest hit location that contains the original target: eyes are within the face, vitals within the torso, hands and feet "within" the limbs, and other locations default to the torso. If the remaining margin is enough to hit that location, again using the hit location's penalty as the recoil if it's higher than the weapon's, the next bullet hits there. Otherwise, check the next location "out" (usually the torso at that point). Continue this process until the margin runs out, or all the bullets fired have hit. So, for example, a super-accurate shooter is aiming at her target's eye (-9). She's firing a Walther P99, with RoF 3 and Rcl 2. She hits, with a margin of 13 (we'll assume the target doesn't dodge). The first bullet hits the eye, of course. For the second bullet, her effective Rcl is 9 (the penalty for the eye). Since she's so good, it still hits the eye. For the third bullet, however, there's only 4 margin of success left. That's not enough for the eye. We move to the face, but that's -5, so it's still not enough. Now we move to the torso. That -0, so we use the gun's normal Rcl of 2. The last shot hits the torso. If she had shot something with RoF of 4, she would have even had enough margin to put that last bullet into the torso too.