07-18-2013, 05:24 PM | #21 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Re: IT:DR (Armored Flesh)
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But yes, whatever the reason once you move away from "humanoid things between 6HP and 20HP" results begin to noticeably breakdown. |
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07-19-2013, 06:29 AM | #22 |
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Re: IT:DR (Armored Flesh)
I'm sorry to butt in here, but this raises a cool idea I'd like to have more information about.
Is there such a thing as a 'damage divisor' type of armor or damage resistance or force screen in GURPS? If not, what would be a fair price for that? |
07-19-2013, 07:09 AM | #23 | ||||
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: IT:DR (Armored Flesh)
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... I think I'm missing a piece of data here that would be useful for determining if this trait is realistic (for objects/machines, of course, not so much for people). All those RHA penetration tests that you hear about for firearms (and that apparently a good deal of the GURPS stats of firearms are derived from)... are those cases where you have a big lump of RHA steel that you shoot at and then see how deep the bullet went, or are those cases where you have a set of plates of various thickness that you shoot at and determine the thickest plate the weapon system can penetrate? |
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07-19-2013, 07:39 AM | #24 | |||
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Re: IT:DR (Armored Flesh)
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Armor is also extremely low for wooden ships, I agree. It sounds like in reality they had very thick hulls. Quote:
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07-19-2013, 07:59 AM | #25 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: IT:DR (Armored Flesh)
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In fact, if the nose had penetrated some militaries counted it as a penetration for testing purposes, while some did not, and others required the projectile penetrate in a condition where it could still explode if explosive, or in one piece, while others just required that it made a hole - it was (and still is, sometimes) a real mess.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
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07-19-2013, 09:52 AM | #26 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: IT:DR (Armored Flesh)
I managed to find a bit more information on penetration tests, namely these two studies. Both made use of thick plates of armor - too thick for the penetrators used to punch through. Neither made any note of needing to find plates that were "just right," as would be necessary if partial penetration only occurs over a very short range of penetrator vs armor. The general tone and methodology of each study indicates that my initial assumption (penetration is based on how deep the projectile goes rather than how thick of a plate it can punch through) was correct. In particular, the linear relationship seen between armor hardness and depth of penetration in the first study indicates IT:DR (AF) may indeed be realistic... at least for homogenous chunks of RHA steel.
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07-19-2013, 10:07 AM | #27 | |||
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: IT:DR (Armored Flesh)
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The higher TL thing isn't really important either - it's just an example where you often have DR values that are a magnitude greater than the HP they protect. Overcoming such DR by a little bit (relative to the DR) usually wipes out the very tiny HP value entirely in one shot. Ideally you want to have them in proportion somehow so that attacks are meaningful but not instant kills. Quote:
IT:DR is simply a different method of making something tougher and it models some classic abilities much better. It's an easy way to tack on "takes half damage vs X" instead of trying to figure out what quantity of additional HP/DR to take. Likewise, while "massless" HP and ADR can be used for a damage soak, sometimes it's easier to just use a damage divisor. |
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07-19-2013, 10:13 AM | #28 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Re: IT:DR (Armored Flesh)
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I'm not clear on what your "narrow range" means, to be honest. It's not like the armor ceases to be useful once it can be penetrated. A weapon still has to be dangerous when it comes out the other side. Armor that makes an attack far less effective is still good armor. Another point of complexity: In small arms body armor the NIJ standard is not "zero chance of penetration" but "fifty percent chance of penetration". Extremely high speed long rod penetrators behave significantly unlike small arms. Newton worked out that penetration can be approximated as Projectile Length (Projectile Density / Target Density), with little consideration to the exact speed or material hardness. |
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07-19-2013, 10:52 AM | #29 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: IT:DR (Armored Flesh)
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07-19-2013, 01:47 PM | #30 | |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: IT:DR (Armored Flesh)
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Speaking of which I am going to answer another of naloth's comments. Depends on the nature of the DR and level of detail of the game... and sometimes that is an appropriate result - if you didn't manage to "break it", it isn't damaged.
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damage reduction, injury tolerance |
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